Noise levels on red line

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

Has anyone used a sound meter to measure the noise level on the red line between Harvard Sq and Alewife? Especially, between Harvard Sq and Davis Sq? I bet it's more than 110 dBs. If one takes the T twice a day, for extended periods of time, I bet that one incurs hearing damage, especially in the low frequency ranges. Clearly, there are more important issues the MBTA is dealing with, but if the noise levels are above what sound exposure regulations permit, I'd say that customers should know about it.

Comments

[qwrrty.livejournal.com]

It couldn't possibly be worse than the airplanes.

It's worse than being ON an airplane

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

...

[hr-macgirl.livejournal.com]

it will in part depend on which trainset you ride on. The 01500, 01600, and 01700 trainsets are much louder than the newer (silver) 01800 cars.

I did not realize the red line had different trainsets...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

Re: I did not realize the red line had different trainsets...

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mattt/]

Yeah. The 01500, 01600, and 01700 are older.

T cars come as married pairs. The number is visible in many places on the outside and inside of the car, and will begin with 015..., 016..., 017..., or 018..., depending on the series. The pair will differ in the last digit by a value of 1 (i.e., 01504 and 01505). Pairs can be mixed and matched to make a 6 (or sometimes 4) car trainset, with the exception that 01800 series cars cannot be combined with other cars.

The 01500 series are frighteningly old, at almost 40 years.

Re: I did not realize the red line had different trainsets...

[ron_newman]

I still remember the 1400 series (no air conditioning, bench seating)

Re: I did not realize the red line had different trainsets...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

I'll pay more attention to those numbers! And try to get anecdotal evidence on relative noise levels.

[forgotten-aria.livejournal.com]

I'm a drummer, and if you're concerned (which I think is fine, you only get one set of ears for an entire life time) I highly recommend the Etymotic Research ER20 High-Fidelity Earplugs which protect your hearing, but still let you hear conversation with out a muffled sound. They cost a little more, but being able to keep them in and still talk with people is really nice.

[hrafn.livejournal.com]

I can't tell, 'cause I have the volume turned up on my iPod. To overcome the noise of the train.

[dylanesque29.livejournal.com]

+1

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

it's really not that loud. it's quieter than being on an airplane or a diesel truck.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

It's quieter than a rock concert, but that doesn't mean it's not loud. :)

I don't tend to notice how loud it is when I'm alone, but when I commuted with a friend, we were quite aware since we had to either stop talking or yell to hear each other during certain bits. It's pretty rare that I have to yell to be heard on a commercial flight.

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

i would say it is noisy, yes. but i don't think it's remotely loud in a way that deserves any special attention.

i also don't really think it's exceptionally louder than the rest of the redline, which is probably the quietest of the rail lines.

[nalz.livejournal.com]

If you take it multiple times a day, and it is over 110 db, it definitely deserves special attention by the person riding it, as they will have significant hearing loss in not too long of a time. Once you lose the hearing, it ain't comin' back.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

I would certainly be curious to know that information. I frequently find the Red Line noise painfully loud and have taken to plugging my ears as the trains roll into the stations. More and more lately I find myself doing the same during my T commute, too. I think I'm going to keep earplugs on me to use every time I ride.

[ron_newman]

Someone was trying to talk to me tonight on the Harvard Square outbound platform as a train entered the station. I told him that I couldn't hear anything he was saying and he'd have to wait until the train stopped.

Too bad he could not hear you...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

telling him you could not hear! :)

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Nope, I just really like the photo, and the bird. :) They're so colorful and raucous.

Not quite the same, but...

[squirrelitude]

I *did* see a random parakeet hanging out with starlings and sparrows near Tufts a couple weeks ago:

http://gallery.brainonfire.net/filter/run?tag[Location][]=Somerville,+MA&tag[Content][]=parakeet

Couldn't catch it. Wily little bird. The sparrows were quite curious about it.

Re: Not quite the same, but...

[squirrelitude]

Yeah, my first thought was that it had escaped, and that maybe I could catch it. The problem was that it was hanging out with starlings, who were skittish... and whenever they flew away, so did the 'keet!

However, I wonder if it might overwinter. I know that there are wild parrot flocks in random cities across the US, including San Francisco, New York City, and Chicago. Maybe Boston could support one too?

Anyway, if you click through to one of the photos, you'll see a map in the sidebar.

[philipph.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I actually have a sound meter, and may be tempted to measure.
Never thought of it, but I probably always have my earphones in when I ride.
I do notice that It's really loud. Generally more so outside the train than inside, though. I don't like having my volume up very loud, so the train totally drowns out what I'm listening to when I'm on the platform (even upstairs at Davis, which I've always found surprising).

[beezy515.livejournal.com]

If you do, please post! I'd be very interested to know what it is.

The train can be painfully loud when it's nearly empty. When it's full during the morning commute, it doesn't bother me nearly as much.

Good point there...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

All those bodies would certainly function as sound attenuators (or perhaps they also function as stabilizers).

Definiltey post if you do!

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

I really wonder if the MBTA has measured these levels recently...

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mattt/]

Please note this thread, above (http://community.livejournal.com/davis_square/1995793.html?thread=23243537#t23243537).

Not to make more work for yourself, but you might want to take several readings, as the noise can vary greatly between actual T trainsets.

Some initial measurements

[philipph.livejournal.com]

So I had reason to take the T around lunch time today, from Davis to Kendall.
Basically, inside the train (which was a newer, and therefore quieter, 018xx car) things never reached 90 dB where I was sitting. Spent most of the time between 75 dB and 85 dB.
On the platforms, it was up in the low 90s.
I definitely can say that there are louder trainsets, though. We'll see what I encounter on the way home.
For the record, this is on a Radio Shack Analog Sound Meter (currently available there for about $45... not sure what I paid for it when I bought it a number of years ago, probably something similar)

[ceo]

It's louder between Harvard and Davis because there's two one-track tunnels, as opposed to one two-track tunnel.

However, the Orange Line is a lot louder, at least from the outside. Really, all of the lines ought to be nearly silent; the noise is the result of poor wheel and track maintenance.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

You know I have often had this *exact same thought* while my commuter rail train (lowell) is pulling into the station to pick me up. Most of the people on the platform cover their ears but the noise level certainly *seems* loud enough to cause damage if one rides the train every day for most of their life.

Does it make the sqeeky, high pitch noise?

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

Or the rumble low freq type of noise? Often, at park Street the incoming green line trains make incredibly loud high freq. noises (I think it must be misaligned wheels, but I'm not sure) and everybody has to cover their ears.

Re: Does it make the sqeeky, high pitch noise?

[m00n.livejournal.com]

One thing I know for sure is that if they do regular maintenance on the trains and tracks, the noises tend to go away. Notice how there is one very quiet and smooth section of the red line now between MGH and Park Street which appeared right after the section had been under repair.

[cold-type.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm more concerned about the possibility that the Red Line could be a death trap between Alewife and Harvard.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/11/05/inspection_assurances_after_red_line_warning/

I suspect the sound is just one symptom of the larger problem: lack of maintenance.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

I have to disagree with D'Allesandro's fear mongering about this, even though I am whole heartedly in agreement with the overall tenor of his report. Even in the unlikely event that a train were to suddenly derail in this section of tunnel at the full operating speed of 45 mph (which it only reaches for a few seconds generally) it is very unlikely that anyone would sustain an injury more severe than bumps and bruises or *maybe* a broken bone. One cannot say the same thing about driving the same route in a car.

What if...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

The derailed train damages the electric wiring in the tunnels and there is also a fire? Even without a fire, probably people could die, or sustain brain injuries, if they slam their heads. Right now, it looks like we don't have objective risk assessment. D'Alessandro and helpers generated the report, but many people say it's hyped. So, we are left with fictional scenarios, speculations, and our own fears.

There's a huge difference

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mattt/]

One is always dangerous. The other was made dangerous.

Driving is an inherently dangerous activity.

In comparison, subway riding is normally far safer. However, wrongdoing on the part of the MBTA/State has led to an excessively dangerous situation in the tunnel section in question.

Re: There's a huge difference

[m00n.livejournal.com]

Yes. Still much safer than driving, but way more dangerous than it needs to be.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

I always did wonder why one of the newest right of way's in the rapid transit system was so damn loud. I would imagine it's a combination of several factors:

1. Two dedicated smaller tunnels
2. Accoustic and vibrational properties of a concrete railbed as opposed to rocks or whatever is in standard ballast
3. Not-very quiet and poorly maintained trains
4. Degredation of the railbed due to lack of maintenance (see d'allesandro report)

And yes.. it totally sucks having to crank your ipod to overcome the noise between north of harvard. If I start t-commuting again I'm definitely investing in some "plug" style earbuds.

[magg1es.livejournal.com]

I've actually thought of extensively researching this, and I'm glad someone else shares the same concerns. I'm very sensitive to sound, to the point if something jars me, there is a high probability I am going to jump from someone just talking to me for the rest of the day. I've jumped so hard from a faulty (or just cranked really loud) intercom that I've dropped and broken things.

I've never noticed the sound being too loud from the inside of the train - at least a sound loud enough to cause ear damage. Next time you notice this, record where approximately you are in the train, number of the car, and where the sound is the loudest.

The one place I know the sound is above permanent ear damage level is Government Center on the Green Line. The screech that the trains make is deafening (literally). I am surprised no one has brought this up before.

Haven't taken the T in Govt Center for a long time.

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

But I do remember loud screeching about 2 years ago on the platform waiting to go to Park Street.

I know that good sound meters can be expensive...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

Does anyone know if there are some models that one can purchase without spending a fortune and that still might give one an approximate reading? I assume that music folks or sound engineers would know.

Re: I know that good sound meters can be expensive...

[bettyw.livejournal.com]

If you have an iPhone (or an iPod Touch plus an add-on microphone) there are several iTunes store apps that emulate a SPL meter - I've heard varying reports of how valid they are, but would give you a ballpark idea.

[sonofabish.livejournal.com]

Here are the official OSHA thresholds for sound levels: the chart (http://www.quietsolution.com/Noise_Levels.pdf)

Nothing on the chart seems to suggest that ordinary riding of the T will cause hearing damage. For the workers on the T constantly exposed to those sound levels, it's a different matter. But for the 5 or so minutes you're exposed to those levels on that stretch of track, you're more likely to fry your hearing with an Ipod.

[elements.livejournal.com]

It's definitely gotten worse over the past few years, and is one of the reasons I take the T a lot less than I used to (I tend to take buses or walk more). I find it physically painful at times, especially around Harvard. I've considered wearing earplugs, though those generally only work for about 30 decibels, to help muffle it some.

That's the thing...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

Noise that is that loud to produce physical pain (which is the point at which people tend to cover their ears) is probably around 120 db, according to the chart provided by sonofabish (http://www.quietsolution.com/Noise_Levels.pdf)