Disgusted.

[marmota.livejournal.com]

a few weeks ago, I was issued a parking ticket in the brief window of opportunity between exiting my car and obtaining a guest permit from my destination. On showing the permit in hand to the ticket writer who was still there, I was told "it took me a minute to write it. dispute it.", and they walked off. So, I've disputed it.

Today, I received in the mail a demand for payment saying that my dispute had been denied, and I quote, "Hearing officers cannot dismiss validly issued ticket(s), which conform, to the parking rules and regulations.".

Apparently policy is now, or perhaps may always have been, for there to be no grace period whatsoever in obtaining guest permits.

So, fair warning. Apparently Somerville expects nonresidents to have to cell phone ahead to destinations and have someone meet us curbside with a permit.

I'm thoroughly disgusted by this, and out $50 for being LEGALLY PARKED.

Comments

[thespian.livejournal.com]

this happened to gingicat when she came to pick me up on day as well.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I would push the dispute further. Make a copy of the relevant guest permit and also perhaps bring a signed statement from the person you were visiting. I've had guests receive tickets under the same circumstances but they were always dismissed right away.

That is indeed really gross.

[marmota.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately I contested it online, and did cite the permit #. I had hoped to get a hearing date assigned in which the person I was visiting had expressed a willingness to accompany me, but instead I got a form letter.

So yes, including a written statement from the person being visited is an excellent suggestion for anyone else this might happen to.

[miss-chance.livejournal.com]

Word on the internetz is that *all* on-line contesting gets denied. period. Some people here have reported going in in person and contesting the on-line-denial-service and have succeeded, though.

[teele-sq.livejournal.com]

I've had two tickets dismissed when I appealed in person. The only time I tried appealing online it was denied. I won't use the online appeal option again.

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

and out $50 for being LEGALLY PARKED.

i agree this really sucks (i've had this happen in somerville too, actually, and now i wait in my car while they run up and get the permit) but...you weren't legally parked. by your own admission, you were parked somewhere that required a permit and you didn't have one.

it's like the people who park somewhere 'just for a minute!' and so they don't put money in the meter and then whine when they get a ticket.

[marmota.livejournal.com]

Technically true, certainly. It's the lack of a grace period (and I'm talking seconds here moreso than minutes) that shows a municipal contempt for people trying to comply with the law. By that definition, I could be ticketed in any metered zone with a "no standing" sign before I had even finished parking a car, simply for failing to instantly teleport change into the meter on my approach to the spot.

[ronhaha108.livejournal.com]

While I sympathize, realistically, is the ticket writer supposed to wait at each car before writing a ticket to see if someone comes out with a guest parking permit?

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Well, NO, but don't you think that if YOU were coming out with said permit in hand, and the 'ticket writer' was still standing there writing your ticket, that s/he should at least give you the benefit of the doubt?????? I mean, seriously, I just... have no words.

[ronhaha108.livejournal.com]

Well, the OP said the ticket writer was still there, not still there writing the ticket. I assumed it was already entered into his/her little hand held computerized thing-a-majig since their reply was "it only took a minute for me to write it...". Also, I've heard that they can't just delete it from their hand held device once entered, of course this is pure hearsay on my part.

[inahandbasket]

This is true, they can't rescind one after they hit "send".

[m00n.livejournal.com]

I agree with junerose. Showing up at the parked car with the permit in hand should be reason enough to stop writing the ticket. It is not the same as trying to get out of paying a meter because you were "just going to be a minute" because a) It is reasonable to expect that someone leave their car mainly for the purpose of retrieving the permit, and b) Chances are, if the person has a guest permit to present, they were probably going to use it anyway, unlike a quarter, where it's obvious that the person is only now trying to pay because they're getting a ticket. If you have access to a guest permit, there really isn't any reason you wouldn't use it every time.

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

that's what i was getting at. it's unlikely the cop was staking out your car and the exact moment you left it, but more likely it was just a shitty coincidence. so i agree you should contest the ticket, but i don't at all think it merits being 'disgusted,' and, as mentioned elsewhere in the comments, once a cop starts writing the ticket, they can't just get rid of it.

i've actually even run out once to move my car to find it getting booted, and despite my begging and crying, nothing could be done. and the guy wasn't trying to be a jerk either, just doing his job.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Quite honestly, my husband has been yelled at for this in Boston in one of the areas with the central meter-for-the-whole-block.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

By that definition, I could be ticketed in any metered zone with a "no standing" sign before I had even finished parking a car, simply for failing to instantly teleport change into the meter on my approach to the spot.
Yup. (http://consumerist.com/2010/04/man-receives-ticket-while-walking-from-car-to-parking-meter.html)

[pushupstairs.livejournal.com]

not to be overly obvious, but how else do you get a guest permit from someone you're visiting? have them mail it to you before you go over?

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

no, like i said in my comment, i usually wait for them to bring it down for me.

[concrete.livejournal.com]

I had better luck disputing tickets in person.

[zaarwin-devolve.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I've heard people here say that the only hope is to contest in person. There are no guarantees, of course, but at least some of the hearing officers seem to be sympathetic to such plights.

[lissie930.livejournal.com]

That happened to me as well, I disputed by mail, they claim never have to received it after I was told not to worry about it by their office, the assistant head guy said he would investigate and never got back to me so I had to pay the late fee as well.

[tom-champion.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry this happened to you. Things have changed in recent months, however and, while there's no going back in time, if this happened now (i.e., you were told someone would investigate and then he/she didn't follow up with you) that in itself would be grounds for dismissal.

(Reply to this)

Always Appeal in Person

[tom-champion.livejournal.com]

As noted in earlier discussions on this topic, the procedure that works best is to:

1. Do nothing until you get your first late notice, which also contains an automatically generated hearing date.
2. Go to that hearing or follow the instructions to change the hearing date to one that fits your schedule.
3. Appeal in person. Bringing your resident friend and citing the permit number would both be good ideas.

It's not necessarily right or fair or logical, but it is what works.

BTW, a "grace period" only works if the PCO saw you pull up. If you park and run in to get a visitor permit and the PCO turns the corner after you've exited your car, then he/she can have no idea of when you arrived. (I don't know, of course, whether that's what happened in your case. The PCO may in fact have seen you exit the car and just assumed you weren't returning.)

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[ringrose.livejournal.com]

Also, there are all the points raised when I complained about "moved before sweep" - a friend's car was still parked n the street sweeping area five minutes after it went into effect, and got ticketed as we walked up to move it. By the way, he successfully contested the ticket.

Some of the valid points in that discussion included:
If the ticket writer can "un-write" the ticket, there is incentive for bribery, blackmail, and/or threats.
Have the ticket writer annotate it "moved before sweep" and then contest it.

If you get there while the PCO is still there, parking pass in hand, have the PCO make a note on the ticket (I think they do this electronically?) saying that you came out with a visitor pass. I'd bet that just as with moving the car before sweeping, this will make it far more likely the ticket will be dismissed.

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Once the ticket is written, there's nothing to do, right, it's already electronically recorded?

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

I was about to make this very point with someone above. I think once they've started writing a ticket, they have to complete it somehow. They can't just "tear it up" or delete it or whatever. But what you CAN do is to put the parking permit in the window and take a picture of the ticket with the permit in the car, then contest in person.

And hope that you don't get a parking ticket while you're in the government building contesting the first ticket!

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

i do believe there is a little notes section, where the ticket person could have noted the resident came out with a visitor's permit.

i mean, i don't blame the ticket writer for the first step, that is just doing their job. however, their attitude after was uncalled for (unless you gave them attitude to begin with)

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

Well...

More tickets -> More money to the city + ticket writer shows he/she's useful-> Ticket writer gets to keep his/her job.

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

I really don't understand why the way to get a hearing is to ignore the ticket. It also seems like that's not the correct procedure according to MGL 90-20A 1/2, which says you're supposed to respond within 21 days with either a payment, a written appeal, or a written request for a hearing.

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[bostonartist.livejournal.com]

One thought about this procedure. If you don't pay the ticket and then wait till you get a late notice, a penalty charge will be tacked on. If you then lose the appeal, you will owe MORE money, right?

Re: Always Appeal in Person

[tom-champion.livejournal.com]

No, you won't owe more, even if you lose. If you go through the appeals process but your ticket is not rescinded, ALL your late fees should be waived -- and all you should pay is the original fine.

At least, that's the way it's supposed to work.

[paradoox.livejournal.com]

OK, I haven't read all the comments, but I'll pontificate.

Yes, this is really gross, but I'd (unfortunately) suggest you pay the ticket and move along.

Somerville has been *rabid* about parking tickets for a long time and is only getting worse. They obviously view it as a revenue source. I'm not sure I've ever heard of *anyone* winning on appeal.

The only way this is going to stop is if the merchants association starts making loud noise about things and some businesses start moving out of Somerville to places with less draconian parking policies, like say Cambridge.

Which reminds me, I need to go pay my Boston parking ticket.