Curiousity killed the landord?

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Hello all,

I have a question, an informal poll of sorts.

I'm at the beginning stages of remodeling my mother's house (she's not living there anymore). It's a two family home. The downstairs apt right now is a one bedroom.

Here's where your sage wisdom/expertise comes in:

I have the ability of making this space a nice, big, one bedroom apartment with a huge eat-in kitchen, large living room and bedroom; or I can take that "extra" room (the kitchen, believe it or not) and turn it into a second bedroom, and make a smaller galley-like kitchen, open to a common room/living room area, which, overall, would not be that big.

I know that it's difficult to visualize, and ultimately, it's my decision, but I"m just looking for what YOU ALL would be looking for in an apartment as a single renter, or with one other roommate.

As a single renter, is the kitchen important to you? The bigger the better? I know that kitchens in homes are massive these days, but do you all look for that in apartments too? Do you young'uns spend time in the kitchen like us old folk?

And, if you were to move in with someone else (have a roomate), how important is a larger kitchen for you? Do you consider the size of the living room/common space or are the bedrooms more important when sharing an apartment (these two bedrooms would be a good size).

Ok, I'm being redundant on both questions, just humor me.....


Also, in general, how important are laundry facilities on-site (ok, I think I know the answer to this one, but I'm throwing it out there as well...)??

Thanks in advance!

:D

~@~@~@~

ADDENDUM-DUM

Er... I know I should be asking a realtor this question, and I have fair idea, but what's the going rate these days for a large one bedroom apt close (VERY CLOSE) to Davis sq?????

Comments

[elforresto.livejournal.com]

I'd say laundry is very high on the list. Kitchens are important to a lot of folks these days. There are tons of foodies out there, and everyone probably appreciates a nice kitchen. Some people (like me) don't need that much space, though, and would prefer to have more living space if given the option. I'd prefer a one bedroom place, but that can get expensive if it's a large space, so a two bedroom might be a little easier to afford.

[mjrocks98.livejournal.com]

For me, I'd love to be able to afford a 1 bedroom in this area, but have no choice but to get a 2 bedroom & split with a roommate. In the kitchen cabinets are important. So many kitchens that I've looked at in the area don't have the cabinets above the counter & to me that's a huge sticking point. I can deal with a small kitchen as long as there are cabinets. Laundry is important. I won't look at a place that doesn't have hook ups. I don't need the landlord to provide me with the washer & dryer, just the hook ups. I've asked a few landlords that didn't have hook ups if they would consider adding them & most have turned me down, so now I only look for apartments that already have them.

[greyling.livejournal.com]

mjrocks brings up an interesting point, which is that this question may be slightly ill-posed. You will be looking at a different set of potential renters if you remodel into a 2-BR situation than you would if you stayed in a 1-BR situation; the question, then, isn't "what would you prefer" but rather, "given the current market in Davis, would a 2BR with a small kitchen get better rent/better renters compared to a luxurious 1BR with a large kitchen?"

Which I think might be a question for a real estate agent to answer.

My gut feelings on the situation are that a 2BR place is typically rented to at least 2 (if not more) people. Would the rooms be somewhat evenly sized? If you have one room that is much smaller than the other, you'll find it harder to rent to students - they'll have to divide the rent unevenly amongst themselves (which they can do, but it gets trickier). You'll find it slightly easier to rent to a couple with a child (or planning a child); the nursery is pretty sweet. If you have a 2BR, you should model your kitchen such that its big enough for at least two people to use it comfortably; is there enough room to store food for 2 people? Is there enough counterspace for 2 cooks working simultaneously?

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Laundry on-site is key, but you do already know that one. :)

Being a social person, I would look for an apartment that had smaller individual rooms (just enough for a bed and dresser, really) but larger common spaces. I would be spending most of my time out of my room socializing with my roommate or my friends, watching TV or playing video games or cooking. So my vote would be for smaller rooms and bigger kitchen.

[lonelyholiday.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's a "right" answer on the kitchen question. I have friends who recently chose their apartment based almost completely on the kitchen - not so much its size (though it's relatively large), but more on the fact that it had new marble countertops and stainless appliances. On the other hand, this is the kitchen in my one-bedroom (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3531/3728351414_29e9173474.jpg), which is basically just the far corner of the living room. That's the picture from the original listing, but the only thing I've changed is putting a small table over on the left for the microwave so I could regain that little sliver of countertop. It's obviously not great, but has never bothered me. And as perspective, I never cook anything elaborate, but I do cook; I'm not someone who can deal with a galley kitchen just because I subsist on takeout. ha.

And I guess I'm the token differing opinion on laundry - I haven't had in-home laundry since I moved out of my parents' house and it's never been a huge problem for me. That said, I've always lived within a block or two of a laundromat, so I guess if your place is not that convenient, it may be more of a deal-breaker.

[treacle-well.livejournal.com]

Ah! Someone else for whom in-home laundry isn't important, as long as there's a nearby laundromat.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

I really appreciate that you are thinking about this as a landlord because it is definitely something that, as an apartment hunter, I've had some pretty strong feelings about. The whole country seems to be extremely lacking in landlords who give two thoughts to kitchen construction.

First off, let me just say that it is NOT the *size* or "fanciness" of the kitchen that matters, it's the intelligence of its design. A tiny kitchen with maximal counter and cabinet space is ALWAYS better than a huge kitchen with one tiny granite counter top with a stainless steel fridge, and yet it almost always seems as if landlords renting apartments believe the opposite to be true based on what I see in the listings.

One thing that is often overlooked but makes a *huge* difference is lighting that points directly at the counter tops. I find it very difficult to cook in the dark or, as is the case in most apartment kitchens, in my own shadow (because there is one feeble light in the center of the kitchen). It's especially important that that light be pointed directly at the counter in a way that is never obstructed. If you Google "restaurant kitchen" you will see, in the very first picture that comes up, an example of a kitchen that has lights directly over the counter top. To put it bluntly, there is almost no such thing as "too much light" in a kitchen. It is very important (can you tell this is a sore spot? :-)).

Two other kitchen-related things that, when taken together and with good kitchen-counter lighting, are important enough so as to make me consider an otherwise unimpressive apartment even if it is very expensive: Lots of outlets above the counter (at least one per counter "section"), a gas stove, a dish washer (the kind with TWO rotors so that the dishes on the top ACTUALLY GET CLEAN), a garbage disposal, and a stove vent that actually vents to the outside.

Sometimes it seems like a lot of landlords regard these things as unreasonable capital expenses when refurbishing an otherwise modest apartment but, as a renter who cooks, I can tell you for sure that a) Apartments that have all of these things without being otherwise extremely "high-end" are extremely rare and way out of my price range and b) Because such apartments are so rare, they almost always make me re-think my original price cap. When I was hunting for my current apartment, I gave the realtor a limit of $1400 a month. I was shown several larger apartments for that price (with kitchens that were large, but severely lacking) before being shown my current place (for $1500) with a much nicer kitchen. Given the space difference, I think it's safe to assume that I paid about $150/month more for the nicer kitchen. Since it was such a rare find, I've stayed here for 3 years so far. That's an extra $5400 for my landlord over 3 years for amenities that almost certainly cost him less than half that amount.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

As for the laundry, the only reason I was willing to live in a place that had none was that I live across the street from a laundromat. It always seemed kind of "cheap" to me for landlords not to be willing to provide on-site laundry, even if it is coin-op, since it ends up being so much cheaper than a laundromat for all involved if spread out over the length of the life-cycle of your average washer-dryer set (or even, for that matter, your average lessor's stay in the place).

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

I have a large 1 bedroom in a better than Davis location and pay $1250/mo with heat included, but it has some flaws to make it cheaper (similar 1beds in my building are $1500-1700).

I would never live in a building without laundry. I am a farly avid cook, but I have a tiny kitchen (every wall has hooks and shelves loaded up). I'd like a bigger kitchen, but layout and having a good stove is more important.

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Pray tell, what is a "better than Davis location"??

[ceo]

I guess the question is, if you go with the 2-bedroom option, would the common room be too small to be both a dining area and a living area? In other words, could it accommodate a couch, a comfy chair or 2 and a smallish dining table?

A small kitchen is not a deal-breaker for me as long as there's decent cabinet space and more than 2 linear feet of counter space, some of which must abut the stove and the sink. Laundry on the premises is a must-have, however.

The 1- and 2-bedroom options will attract different clientele, so in many respects it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. 2 bedrooms may get you more rent, but I'm far from an expert on this.

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your input!

[m00n.livejournal.com]

Another thing I forgot to mention that really contributes to the usability of a kitchen, and really doesn't add anything to the cost if you are building it from scratch (or nearly so) is that the stove should be flanked by at least a little bit of counter space. Cooking in a kitchen where the stove is completely free-standing almost always results in a line of "spillage" on the floor between the stove and the closest counter space which must be mopped up after every meal. It's very annoying and even somewhat dangerous because all hot things must be carried across the room whenever they are removed from the stove.

[42itous.livejournal.com]

The very most important (and hard to find) thing for me is storage space.

So a big kitchen is awesome, but only because counter-space and cupboards are so important. If the stove/sink/fridge triangle is too big, then it starts to be too much effort to cook in said kitchen. Lots of space for entertainment sounds nice too.

Of course, some people don't enjoy cooking as much as I do, and those people would probably be content with a galley-style kitchen. I guess there's no way to know ahead of time what the best decision would be.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

FWIW my in-laws -- who cook often, and well -- have a galley kitchen, but they put a ton of thought into how to pave every available inch of space with cabinets and countertops, so it works quite well. You definitely have to think about it, though, and spring for cleverly designed cabinetry.

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

i've been here for ten years ("here" being boston & surrounding areas, and moving almost every year) and i've lived without laundry ONCE. and i won't do it again. even if it's coin op in a basement, that's fine, but man, the time sink of laundromats, OMG. not to mention lugging stuff if you don't have a car (AWFUL) and all the things that can go wrong. (once i left my clothes drying, returned at close to pick them up and discovered the dryer broke half way through, meaning no clean laundry AND i would have to wash & dry it again the next day; another time there was ink in the dryer and ruined at least 3 pieces of clothing, etc)

/LAUNDRY RANT

as for the rest, bedroom size living alone or with roommates (but esp with) is KEY, for me, always always always. i can make a small room work, but i'd much prefer larger bedroom over larger common areas as that's where i spend most of my time.

kitchen is really a personal preference more than the rest imo, not dependent on age/sex/etc. in quincy my only gripe with that place was the kitchen, even one person cooking was sometimes a challenge, forget if my roommates (a couple) were trying to eat too. it would have been better if it had two entrances, or room for a table? but having only one narrow doorway in and out was terrible.

good luck!

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[ratatosk.livejournal.com]

I've usually had more than one roommate, but I have a strong opinion on laundry which wouldn't vary: I use it as an initial filter, because, at least for the kinds of apartments I have lived in, the condition of the laundry is the best single proxy for everything else I care about.

I wouldn't look at a place with no laundry or with coin-op. Laundry in the basement would make me suspicious and I'd need a lot to balance it out, like the basement being really clean and not accessible to anyone I didn't trust. Restrictions on the hours I could use the laundry (e.g. because of bad noise or vibration isolation) would be another major red flag as to both the condition of the building and the personality of the landlord.

If there's a good location in the unit (e.g. a dryer vent is provided in a logical place), permission to install my own is about as good as laundry already in the unit, though. That's how it was where I live now -- I got a cheap dryer off Craigslist.

My most/only useful piece of advice might be this: If you choose to provide laundry machines, make sure they are as clean and operational-looking as possible when you show the apartment.

Laundry

[geekchik.livejournal.com]

On-site laundry is a must for someone without a car. Coin-op is fine--just have it be in the building!

Re: Laundry

[ron_newman]

Although these days, I'd prefer to have laundry machines that accept stored-value cards (like Charlie Cards for laundry) as well as coins. It's a pain to always remember to have enough quarters.

[siderea]

One bedroom with a big kitchen and large dining room you will wind up renting to one more wealthy person, presumably an older professional.

A two-bedroom with a galley kitchen you will wind up renting to either a couple with a child or a pregnancy who are settling on the kitchen because they can't afford better, or to two college students.

You will probably be able to command significantly more per month in rent if it's a "two bedroom", however, a mediocre two bedroom will likely attract less financially stable tenants than a nice one bedroom. There are a lot more financially less stable people in the housing market than folks looking for luxurious one bedrooms right now, but a landlord takes his tenant's risks along with them. There are pros and cons to both approaches; the question is which headache you prefer.

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

This is an extremely cogent expansion of greyling's comment above, and just about what I wanted to say too.

In my own case, moving to Davis in Sept 2009 as a (newly-)single 38-year-old, I had a strong preference for 2BR over 1BR, for purposes of an office/guest room. The place I got (and love), closer to Ball Sq than Davis, is $1k including heat -- but they had discounted it from $1200 when it was still vacant after the Sept 1 rush. Definitely consult a realtor for input on what the local market will bear.

My place has not only 2BR *and* a smallish living room but *also* an eat-in kitchen. However, the kitchen is down a narrow hallway from the LR, which means large-group gatherings usually end up mushing into either one or the other but not both. Based on the experiences of the ensuing year-plus, I think that if given the choice to design from scratch, I'd actually rather have a galley-style kitchen space off a larger open-plan living/dining space, for more flexibility. Then you can expand the table for holiday dinners, etc. etc.

As for on-site laundry: I am in the "have never had it and cope just fine" minority. I think it becomes much more important to you once you *have* had it and gotten used to it. (I've never had an apt with a dishwasher either!) So I would personally be much more likely to reject an apartment that had a shower stall with no bathtub, for instance, than no laundry.

[m-b-w.livejournal.com]

An answer to your addendum question: I own a 1 BR that is VERY CLOSE to Davis Square but doesn't sound nearly as large as yours. The rent is $1500/month. It does include laundry and driveway parking.

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Sounds very much like the apartment I'm doing over. Thanks for the info!

[tamalinn.livejournal.com]

People keep saying on-site laundry is a must, but where's the nearest laundromat? I don't have laundry on site, but my laundromat is across the street. Distance-wise it's closer than hauling a load down three flights to a basement.

And everyone's been saying this, but counter and cabinet space and adequate lighting are so much more important in a kitchen than the size. I had a galley kitchen at one apartment that had so much counter space and storage it was great! In my place now, my kitchen is huge, but I have to do all my food prep on the kitchen table, and I'm always working in shadow since the one light in the kitchen shines down on the center of the room.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Distance-wise it's closer than hauling a load down three flights to a basement.

What?

[dahdahdahdancer.livejournal.com]

Some thoughts from a landlass with a really nice(!) one-bedroom apt: It rents for $1375, and the tenant(s) pay utilities in addition to that (I pay for water/sewer). I added laundry on-site because there was a big demand for it. Many units now have that and it's more than an amenity. A small galley kitchen will attract people who don't love to cook; a larger kitchen (like my unit has) attracts people who spend a lot of time there. So it's up to you on that front - you'll still find tenants, just with different kitchen priorities. Just plan the little kitchen so that there are pull-down countertops for extra space, and storage up the wazoo. I often rent the apt to couples and sometimes they moved because they had a baby and needed an extra room. If you added that, your tenants wouldn't have to move if they reproduced. And a number of people do work at home, on and off, so the little extra room could certainly offer an office space. If it were me remodeling - smaller kitchen and extra room, plus laundry. Good luck.

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Thank you! What I'm afraid of is having such a large one bedroom apt that I won't get the rent that I expect/want, lol. But, good points were made about clientele. So much info to consider, thanks!

[bobobb.livejournal.com]

I have a one-bedroom with driveway parking, new insulation, yard, front/back porch, disposer, dishwasher etc. by the Bike Path near Ball Square and was told by a rental agency that I could get $1700. This seemed high to me, but if everything is new and nice I could see someone being interested -- probably not someone as frugal as me though.....

[intuition-ist.livejournal.com]

yeah, that's really high for the size/location. i'm living a 5-min walk from davis in a nice 2br for about that.

[squirrelitude]

Here's the big thing to remember with kitchen lights: Will the person's head and body cast a shadow over their workspace? If so, move (or add) lights.

[closetalker11.livejournal.com]

Just to throw in 2 more cents:

I share a one-bedroom (with significant other) that sounds a lot like your first description: large living room, large (amazing) kitchen, big bedroom and bathroom. I totally, completely love it. We were actually looking for a 2-bed originally, but the size of the rooms, especially the amazing kitchen, won us over immediately. Make of that what you will.

Laundry in the building is a 100% definite must. As I said in your other post, it's a deal-breaker for me, even for the Best Apartment Ever.

My large one-bed was rented to the two of us for $1300 about 3.5 years ago. We're between Teele and Tufts, maybe a 7 minute walk from Davis. Also FYI.

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Such great info! :)

[tsuki-no-bara.livejournal.com]

i realize this is probably out of your control, but for me, a reliable place to park my car is more important than on-site laundry. (altho i love that i have on-site laundry. it's coin-op in the basement but i don't have to get dressed or leave the house to wash my clothes.) it doesn't have to be a space in a driveway or a lot, but at least the knowledge that i can come home late at night and not have to drive around for half an hour looking for a parking space would be fabulous.

but if this is out of your control, it's out of your control, and not everyone's going to have the same need that i do.

i live by myself in a two bedroom which i honestly think is too big for me, but i like having an extra room. i can have guests. :D the difference between big kitchen/big living room and galley kitchen/smaller living room comes down to a. how the galley kitchen is laid out (are there enough cabinets, is there good counterspace, is there any storage, what's the lighting like), and b. whether or not there's enough space for a table in the living room. a gorgeous galley kitchen and a gorgeous little living room are useless if the living room is too small to live and eat in.

i think other people's suggestions about the kitchen are good ones, especially m00n's suggestion to have some counter space next to the stove, and dial_zero's suggestion for a good-size sink and space for a dish drainer if you don't have a dishwasher. (which is my situation right now - no dishwasher, but a double sink and space for the dish drainer. i don't actually mind it, but i think it would be worth it in rent to add one, if you're renovating anyway.)

counter space and cabinets. (and good lighting. :D ) you can make a useful kitchen out of a small space with that.

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the suggestions!

[curiositykt.livejournal.com]

Laundry. Dishwasher. There are plenty of young couples out there looking for a one bedroom to share.. And I love a large kitchen - provided there's enough counter space. There is nothing more annoying than tons of floor space and an entirely unusable giant kitchen. Why is it so hard to put a counter next to a stove! or a fridge!

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

See my answer to m00n above. But, I do agree with you.

Know your market ...

[sabio75.livejournal.com]

You can find people who will tell you a 1-bedroom with premium kitchen is best, and you can find people who will tell you a 2-bedroom with "cozy" kitchen is best. Both are correct.

The issue is, how frequently is each correct? You are much more likely to find occupants for a two-bedroom with a less-than-ideal kitchen than you will find tenants for a one-bedroom with luxurious kitchen. If you are focused on being a smart landlord, you want to think about what is going to improve the probability of delivering an apartment that is attractive to the most people.

Getting top-dollar rent but with a lot of vacancy between tenants is not a way to win.

[daviscubed.livejournal.com]

Underrated - garbage disposal. I went from having one to not having one, and while it probably wouldn't affect me renting a place or not if I liked everything else, it is something to consider.

I'm a "big common space" and "laundry on-site" person as well. But if you have laundry on-site, you should have one washer/dryer per apartment if at all possible. Otherwise, it's not that convenient.

[elements.livejournal.com]

If it's super close to Davis, it's prime for the higher-end market so leave the big kitchen. Someone (or some couple) with enough cash will rent it and appreciate a kitchen with room to really cook. And keep the bathtub (re your later post) because while shower stalls are OK, they don't fit a higher-end aesthetic. Unless it's a super nice, large shower stall.

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Thank you!