"Blocking Handicap Ramp" ticket

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

Has anyone had any luck fighting a "blocking handcapped ramp" ticket? I was parked in a spot on a curved corner that I'm pretty sure I've parked in several times before, that happens to have a ramp coming down. I'm pretty sure there is no paint or bump strips on it, and It's $200 that I would much rather spend on something else.

Please, no snark, i'm not in the mood.

Comments

[eclecticavatar.livejournal.com]

It's very helpful if you can get a picture of your car parked in that specific spot as it was when you found the ticket. That way, you can prove that you were far enough away or that there is no official warning that it's a handicap ramp.

[ron_newman]

Were you blocking the ramp or not? Could someone in a wheelchair get onto and off the ramp? If they couldn't, you deserve the ticket. Sorry.

[qwrrty.livejournal.com]

Has anyone had any luck fighting a "blocking handcapped ramp" ticket?

I hope not. :-)

[aroraborealis.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me, too.

[jadelennox]

Regardless of paint, it is illegal to park in a handicapped ramp in Somerville, and for good reason. There are plenty of cases where it is illegal to park without other notification such as paint. Fire hydrants, for example, are something you would know not to park in front of, without any other sign. Sidewalk ramps and curb cuts fall into that category.

[jadelennox]

The curb cut itself serves as the official warning in Somerville (and in most places). It is illegal to park in front of a curb cut just as it is illegal to park in front of a driveway or a fire hydrant.

[lizzielizzie.livejournal.com]

I suspect you were never supposed to park there, and just got lucky the other times.

[cutieperson]

oh, please. as frustrating as i find some of the ramps around this (and every other) city, having mediocre ones is better than having none at all.

[jadelennox]

These are NOT compliant, therefore they AREN'T handicapped ramps.

Actually, that's not the law, either in spirit or letter. While the city should be following ADA guidelines when constructing its ramps (and most of the new ramps I've seen that are being built around town are in fact compliant, or at least more compliant than they used to be), blocking the curb cut is a violation of the law whether it is fully compliant with the guidelines or not.

Most wheelchair stalls in public bathrooms are also not fully compliant with ADA guidelines, but if a public organization removed its wheelchair stalls on the grounds that "since they aren't fully compliant they aren't handicapped stalls" they would be rightfully sued for violating the law.

[thelauraism.livejournal.com]

This just happened to my roommate. There are two driveways next to the 'ramp' (which isn't even marked), there are people parked there everyday and she got a ticket. I agree that nobody should park in a handicapped space, but I also think there are some cases where you can fight it. In her case, it was not of a certain regulation. She is still waiting to hear back from the city.

[qwrrty.livejournal.com]

Thanks for sharing.

Absolutely I agree that the city should be sued if it fails to install ADA-compliant facilities and refuses to fix them. But I don't agree that it follows that we should forgive any parking ticket for someone who parked in front of a poorly-built handicap ramp.

If for no other reason, that would effectively put the parking clerk in charge of deciding whether handicap ramps and entrances meet ADA standards, and WHOA NELLY what a bad idea that would be.

[ron_newman]

They are less usable than they should be, but that doesn't mean it's right to block them or wrong for the city to ticket if you do.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I agree - I really had no idea that this was a "handicapped" ramp. (is that even the PC term anymore?) This is compounded by the fact that the sidewalk on the road in question is some 4-6 feet from the curb (separated by lawns which I assume are privately maintained).

In fact, I took a look on google and, as I suspected, this ramp has no paint or tactile plate. Perhaps taking the ADA specs to the department could help/

If I had known the drama that would ensue, I would have parked on my own street in front of my own house and taken the $50 streetsweeping ticket instead!

[lindau-nemesis.livejournal.com]

I know someone who got out of it the first time because of the lack of signage or anything to indicate its not a parking spot.

[jadelennox]

The fact that there is a universal convention that one should not block ramp access to the sidewalk is perfectly adequate. They do not need extra marking. The example in Cambridge is egregious and should be fixed.

Bad ramps make the city more accessible. Of course they are worse than compliant ramps, but they are better than no ramps at all. 1:1 ramps aren't accessible by all users of wheelchairs or strollers, but they are accessible by more than just curbs.

Additionally, most of the new ramps around Somerville, Arlington, Medford, etc. are in fact ADA compliant ramps, bright yellow with textured markings. Some of them are installed kind of badly, because the workers installing them don't understand how to adjust the homogeneous pre-packaged textured-surface ramps to fit the actual distance between the curb and the road, but I don't think you can assume bad faith, "a dodge by the city".

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

Your slope notes leave out the fact that, for a grade change of 6" or less, the slope can be up to 1:10, and for a grade change of 3" or less, the slope can be 1:8, provided that there are space limitations or other constraints. And a curb ramp may, if needed, extend into the street with what you're calling a "lump of asphalt."

When regulations change (as they did in, I believe, 2002), municipalities are not required to go back and retrofit ramps which don't meet the new criteria - they're only required to meet it on new construction. Which, as far as I've seen, the city has done - I can't think of any recent construction that doesn't meet current regulations (though I haven't done an exhaustive survey of them).

(Also, requirements about where they can go have changed - they're required to be further from corners than they typically used to be, which may be part of why you're thinking they're "willy-nilly.")

[jadelennox]

They are "curb cuts". And you should assume that all slope access from the sidewalk to the road is illegal to park next to, except in extreme cases such as a long stretch of sidewalk they just slopes to road because nobody has ever built a curb there.

Old ramps do not have to abide by ADA specifications. There is no law that says that as soon as the ADA changes its specifications, all old curb cuts need to be modified. They are grandfathered in, and don't need to be changed unless other triggering actions happen.

Despite what pierceheart is implying, the paint and tactile plate are not there to indicate anything to you, the driver. It is your responsibility under the law to see the curb cut. The paint and tactile plate are there for the benefit of the person with disabilities who is using the ramp.

[rmd.livejournal.com]

bad ramps >> no ramps.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

Maybe they are. They certainly sound like asphalt plopped down to keep construction equipment from wrecking a curb...

[jadelennox]

I'm talking about places where DPW has dumped 2-3 cubic feet of asphalt in a gutter, at a 1:1 slope - has that made the city more accessible?

YES.

I don't know the particular corner you are discussing, obviously. Perhaps what you are describing is more on the order of construction debris than a ramp, in which case it is something of a strawman. And bad ramps are inadequate, and should be replaced by good ramps, whether those good ramps are ADA-compliant or not. But a 1:1 slope from the sidewalk to the street, as long as it is at least wheelchair axle-width wide, is still more accessible than no ramp at all. It is still easier to get a wheelchair up a 1:1 ramp slope than up a 90° curb. (This, of course, depends on the wheelchair user and the wheelchair in question.)

Distinguishing between construction debris or lazily constructed sidewalks and curbs cuts is obviously important. Designing and building high-quality and compliant curb cuts is also important. But saying that because you sometimes see really crappy ramps means that it's okay for people to park in front of them because they obviously aren't helpful to people in wheelchairs means that you should spend some time talking to people who use wheelchairs.

[ron_newman]

Where exactly is this?

[ron_newman]

all slope access from the sidewalk to the road is illegal to park next to

I can think of one interesting possible exception, though, and it's right in Davis Square. The parking lot behind the CVS building has a curb-cut leading to Dover Street, but it's blocked off by a steel railing. Is it legal to park on the street next to this curb cut, or not?

[geekpixie.livejournal.com]

Most of the crap asphalt ramps I've seen are not at all wide enough for a wheelchair axle, much less my roller suitcase. They just installed several while redoing the sidewalks around Teele Square, and it's a joke.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

Agreed on both counts. That they've been used to ticket is really surprising, given how they've been described.

[ron_newman]

Are these possibly temporary while repaving is still going on?

[geekpixie.livejournal.com]

Seeing as all the work in that neighborhood is done and they've been there over 4 months now, I doubt it.

[copperpoint.livejournal.com]

Just because you haven't gotten a ticket there before doesn't mean it was a legal spot.

[squonk.livejournal.com]

idea that this was a "handicapped" ramp. (is that even the PC term anymore?)

I'm sure by "PC" you meant "better promoting social equality, not to mention more grammatically correct." And no, it's not. The term is "accessible."

For the rest, refer to jadelennox and other voices of reason here. I'm sure you would rather spend that $200 on something else. People in wheelchairs would rather that you didn't impede their safe passage to work, school, or recreation. I bet you'll be careful not to do so again.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

Someone ought to tell Somerville this - "Handicapped" is taken verbatim from their $200 ticket.

[squonk.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it was. And someone does need to tell them it shouldn't be used--not because it isn't "PC," as you suggested, but because it's outdated for very good, social justice-oriented reasons (and, I maintain, grammatical ones...).

At the Chinese Olympics apparently....

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

The handicapped bathroom had a translation sign saying "Deformed people lavatory".

Yeppers.

[squonk.livejournal.com]

[acidgalore.livejournal.com]

As a civil engineer, I can say that we try really hard to design perfect ramps (I don't work for the City of Somerville, but I'm sure they're trying too). Sometimes, though, it is impossible to design and install a fully compliant wheel chair ramp (WCR) because of the existing conditions. You are right the optimal slope is 1:12, but at the same time there should be a level landing at the back of the sidewalk at the WCR with a max 2% cross slope AND a min 3 feet clearance to the back of sidewalk. The problem is that back in the day, they were building the sidewalks too narrow and they didn't really keep the 2% cross slope requirement. Plus sometimes you have other obstructions such as hydrants, utility poles, etc. thus making it sometimes impossible to install a fully compliant WCR today.
As for the asphalt mass at 1:1 (45%) slope, to me it sounds like they haven't even cut the curb, but built it over the curb. Obviously, this is not how a WCR should be constructed. In most cases this is a temp fix until contstruction is completed.

[gruene.livejournal.com]

It sounds you were within 20 feet of the intersection anyway, which is also illegal.

[gruene.livejournal.com]

I'd have more sympathy for the city if they actually plowed their ramps in winter. They'll give a $200 ticket for blocking them, but do nothing about the giant chunk of ice that makes the ramps unusable.

[doceydo.livejournal.com]

My boyfriend is going through a similar situation. He actually ended up getting 2 tickets, so he has $400 worth to pay. He is trying to appeal it now. He went to the spot and took pictures. Apparently, he had parked there several times before and they had recently built a ramp that he had not been aware of at some time in the weeks before he parked there. As far as he could tell, the ramp would not have been useful for someone in a wheelchair anyway.

Long story short, he is still in the process of appealing them.

Good luck! City needs $...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

And they'll get the money wherever they can.

Re: Yeppers.

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

That sign would make any woman on a wheelchair feel very welcome! :-

[etana.livejournal.com]

this.

[etana.livejournal.com]

This. It's rather ignorant to say "I don't recognize it so it doesn't count neener neener neener."

[etana.livejournal.com]

I'm in lurve with you. FYI.

[sab-1.livejournal.com]

Im goin thru this right now...i parked 5 feet from a handicap friendly cross walk around midnight when i got back to my car in eastie a couple hrs later i had a 100$ ticket ..after walkin around my car twice i finially saw it !! A lilltle divit in the pavement coverd in dirt that could barley be seen during the day nevermind @ night..i took pics and had my appeal to day and they denied it stating "it is the drivers responsability to be cognative of where they park" well im takin it to the supreme court !!! This isnt right we dont live in the wild west u cant just hand out tickets and say ooh well ur just gonna have to pay .. Shit like this has to be marked !!! I pay my exsise tax evey year there is noo reson why they cant mark these hiddin ramps ...i dont care what they say i Will not pay this ticket i will get my lawer involved if need b ...the city of
boston is reckless!!