Business Permit parking spaces in the Davis lots after 5pm?

[bettyw.livejournal.com]

Last night my partner came to Davis around 8pm for a Johnny D's show. She went to the Buena Vista lot, noted that the Business Permit spaces said that they were restricted until 5pm weekdays (as they said before the recent changes), so parked in one. Came back to find a $50 ticket dated 9:01pm for "Code 93: Permit Parking - no business sticker".

I've looked at the new parking regulations online, and all I can find about this is:

Section 15-2.2 Business Permit Parking
All Business Permit Spaces in the Davis Sq and Magoun Sq Municipal Parking Lots will revert to
metered spaces Monday through Friday 5pm-10pm and Saturday 8am to 10pm.

She says that there were no meters on the business permit spaces.

Can anyone explain what the *real* rules are for those spaces now? Thanks.

[Next night edit: on further questioning, my partner said tonight that she did see the sign - that was on an unlit wall - said "8:30am-3:30" but didn't see, or imagine it might be, 3:30AM]

Comments

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

I think this sucks real bad. This similar situation occurred@ the grove street lot also- which is probably your case. Maybe 2 months ago they quietly changed the times on those business spots to 8am-3am Mon-Sat!?! I know very odd hours, alot of late night workers use those spots and anyone else on a first come basis before they changed the signs. Essentially with the grove st lot they are saying unless you have a business permit no 1 can park there- so basically making 10 parking spots unusable. To the cities credit they did put fliers on peoples cars for about 2 weeks or so. But there intention escapes my logic- do they want employees of business's within the square to buy permits if there working hours are from say 4pm to midnight? I had originally heard that, with the grove st lot, they would placing meters there that would go into effect after permit parking was up@ 5pm. But there are no meters there as of yet so technically people cannot park there- with the lack of parking in the square this seems to be far from logical.
Maybe the city needs your ticket money to buy a meter to put there :P Sorry a bit of humor but I understand your frustration. As to explaining the real rules to the regulation you noted above- what physically exists most likely does not coincide with the cities code. Hopefully the city businesses will bring this to the mayors attention when he has his meeting this month @ the theatre

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

I think she should contest this.

Remember, according to the recent discussions on this, the appropriate way to get a hearing is to NOT PAY THE TICKET. (Emphasized because it is counter-intuitive to me.)

Wait until they mail the notice of an overdue ticket; that will include the information about the hearing.

Don't have to trust me, check other parking posts in this community :)

[oneagain.livejournal.com]

I am so sick of the parking nazis; Somerville has become a decidedly unfriendly, even hostile place. That this happened, that business permits *anywhere* would go until 3am, is pretty ludicrous. I want the people responsible for this gone--here's hoping with the folks who take their place in time that this ridiculous system changes back to what it was. Very, *very* annoyed.

I'm sorry this happened to your friend. I would suggest appealing it. Maybe you will get someone who isn't a nazi and sees what happened to your friend as being as hideous as I do. I feel like I have to apologize on behalf of Somerville, which sucks much more due to the parking insanity. What happened to your friend is simply unacceptable.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

The problem being, of course, that the people who actually put the ridiculous restrictions into place aren't elected, but appointed. Which makes it harder to replace them.

Agreed, though - 3am business spaces are ludicrous.

[ron_newman]

THe extended hours for business permit spaces were actually at the request of local businesses, who needed parking for their evening employees. But it doesn't sound like this was implemented at all competently.

[oneagain.livejournal.com]

That's even worse; people doing something that pisses quite a few people off with no accountability? Do you know if they can be *un-appointed*? If not, what kind of checks and balances are in place if they decide to become tyrannical (which, imho, they have already become)?

[oneagain.livejournal.com]

I wonder how it could be implemented better? Maybe put up signs saying it's not really 5pm when the parking is no longer restricted, its really 3am? This just seems to be a matter of *very* bad faith amongst folk at the parking office. If you can get a ticket until 3am (which should not be the case to begin with), there should at least be a *sign* saying so, not misleading someone into thinking it was fine to park there after 5pm. Very bad faith indeed.

[ron_newman]

I'm going to take a walk and look at these spaces. The business spaces behind Rite Aid also had their hours extended, and I'm pretty sure the signs were changed as well.

[bettyw.livejournal.com]

Thanks Ron - I was going to try to check the BV lot myself next chance I got, either to see if my friend misread the sign in the dark, or get a photo of one if they have not been changed. I'll be interested in what you see by daylight.

procedure

[bostonartist.livejournal.com]

One thought about this procedure. If you don't pay the ticket and then wait till you get an overdue notice, a penalty charge will be tacked on. If you then lose the appeal, you will owe MORE money, right?

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

(http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/jpvalley547/?action=view&current=Paking01.jpg)

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

Sorry to double post- first time posting a picture here and the system is dif than other forums. @ Ron I will need to check with parking regarding the night time parking for employees. A business owner in the square had actually told me it was cheaper to park @ a meter than to get a permit

[bettyw.livejournal.com]

Thanks - is that @ Buena Vista, or Rite-Aid? While in agreement that time extension is unexpectedly wrong, I was going to check the signage b/c my friend works 3rd shift and had woken early to go to the show, so I couldn't be 100% sure she had only glanced at the signs but not looked closely.

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

That is the Grove st Lot- this could be the situation with the others but I am not completely sure. Again it is stupid and typically the "employers" in the square are not rushing down to buy business stickers for there employees. So the lot is empty @ night

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

On the rare occasions when I need to drive to Davis, it used to be easy to find a legal spot in the Grove Street lot on weeknights in the business permit row, which used to be unrestricted after 5 pm. It's too bad that it's now illegal for most people to park there at night, while the spaces sit empty.

[acidgalore.livejournal.com]

I saw this sign about a month ago at the Grove St parking lot, and initially I thought it said 8:00AM - 3:30*PM*
I think that's a confusing / misleading sign, as the hours it posts 8:00AM - 3:30AM are over TWO days.
And does "8:00AM - 3:30AM Monday - Saturday" mean it is Business Permit Parking Only until 3:30AM on Saturday?
Or does it mean it's Business Permit Parking Only from 8:00AM Saturday to 3:30AM Sunday?

Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[tom-champion.livejournal.com]

In order to run the businesses that attract people to Davis Square, local bar owners, restaurateurs, etc., need to have spaces for their waitstaff, kitchen staff and bartenders to park for the duration of their shifts. As Ron noted, the business reps on the Parking Solutions Task Force asked that businesses open at night be able to have more permits with extended hours so that their employees didn't have to risk tickets by playing meter tag or by parking on resident permit-only streets.

The City adopted their suggestion.

DSLJers have cited anecdotal evidence for all sorts of positions for and against the policy changes rolled out in the last year, but the hard truth remains that there are thousands more cars on Somerville's streets every year. The people who work here drive them; the people who live here drive them; the people who visit here drive them -- and there hasn't been any increase in the number of spaces. Per-capita car ownership keeps on rising, no matter the price of fuel or the condition of the economy.

Of COURSE there was a money component to all this: Somerville has had its state aid cut again and again; expenses like health care and energy have soared; and, under Massachusetts state law, cities and towns have almost no way to raise money except through fees and fines and the property tax (but even this latter option is tightly controlled under Prop 2 1/2). The City cut spending hard last year, laying off some employees and furloughing others -- and will face more cuts this year.

Of COURSE people get angry when aggressive enforcement trumps customer service -- but that was a problem before the policies changed, and the Traffic and Parking Dept. is currently making real progress in improving its customer service.

But here's what lies at the core of all this:
1. Somerville -- far and away the most densely populated city in New England -- now faces parking competition as bad as any in the Northeast. It's true that, for many years, Somervillians could have it both ways -- a sophisticated urban community with lots of unregulated parking -- but the numbers have changed.
2. People have intense psychological reactions to ANY intrusions into and restrictions on their freedom to drive and park where they please. Studies show people view their cars as an extension of their homes and their persons.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119167474/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.howwedrive.com/category/trafficpsychology/
http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2007/11/drivers-are-territorial-about-their.html

3. The collision between 1. and 2., above make it impossible to come up with ANY new regulatory policy that won't make large numbers of people near-apoplectic with rage.

Not having to deal with this dichotomy is one of my favorite things about not working for the city anymore. (Of course, the budget cuts and furloughs weren't any fun, either.) Please bear in mind that the overwhelming majority of my former colleagues are neither stupid, nor venal nor incompetent -- quite the opposite in fact -- and that there are rational reasons for the policies the city has implemented.

Okay, now that's off my chest, you may now resume being mortally offended, aggrieved and truculent. 'Cause that'll really help.

Re: Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[squirrelitude]

I believe that the ragefest here is about lack of signage (whether or not it is true, which I can't judge from my cubicle.)

Re: Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[squirrelitude]

Oh, and I appreciate your rant -- it is very informative and reasonable.

Re: Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[hrafn.livejournal.com]

If they could only just manage their signage and communications better, the new regulations would lead to less rage, and less resulting condescension - 'cause that'll really help - from TPTB.

I don't even -own- a car and the lousy communication about all this - and between that and this bullshit "don't pay the ticket, that's the best way to get a hearing and contest it" it seems like it's being badly done ON PURPOSE - drives me insane.

Re: Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[bettyw.livejournal.com]

E.g. - While I know, as an IT worker, that it can be difficult to update myriad pages on a web site, this Davis Sq. parking map on the city's website (http://www.somervillema.gov/CoS_Content/documents/Davis%20Square%20Parking%20Map.pdf) still says "Brooks Pharmacy Lot - Meters: 8am - 8pm (front lot)
- Business Permit: 8am - 5pm (rear lot)"

[ron_newman]

When I walked through the Buena Vista lot a half hour ago, all of the Business Permit signs said 8:00 AM - 3:30 AM, just like the photo that vonelftinhaus posted below.

HOWEVER, that does not mean the signs read this way when your friend parked there last night! It is possible that someone at City Hall read your post and ordered all of the signs stickered over some time today. I'm not sure how to prove that happened, however.

Re: Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[ron_newman]

A better idea than what was implemented:

Put all of the meter heads back on the Business Permit spaces. Allow Business Permit holders to park at them without feeding the meter. Also allow Business Permit holders to park in all resident parking spaces on nearby streets.

This ensures that everyone has a place to park, nobody gets unnecessarily ticketed, and most of the parking spaces don't sit empty.

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

I took that photo on January 23 and again that is only the 10 spots@ the Grove st Lot. I have no idea what the other signs say Or if (when) they were changed. I will check with parking what the rates are for the business permit stickers and if they are a different rate if someone was to park from 6pm-2am? A business owner in the square had told me it was cheaper to fill the meters like a losing slot machine vs paying for a sticker?! Which means employees of the night time places are taking up spots
I had originally taken that photo to email to people in the city and Davis area- maybe I should get to it now :)

Re: Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[ron_newman]

Besides the hours, it hasn't been "Brooks Pharmacy" for a couple of years now.

Re: Why Business Permits Now Run Later

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

"thousands more cars on Somerville's streets every year"

[citation needed]

Are there really more than 2000 additional cars in Somerville every year? So over the last 15 years, the city has gained more than 30,000 cars? I find that hard to believe.

And more relevantly, as I posted above, I never had trouble finding an empty spot in the business row in the Grove Street lot on weeknights, when it was unrestricted after 5 pm.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

I'd interpret it to mean you need a permit from 8 am to midnight on Saturdays, and no permit during any hours on Sundays.

And on Mondays, you'd need a permit from midnight to 3:30 AM, and after 8 AM.

(I still don't understand why the Sunday exception was left off the new 2 hour except by permit signs.)

[ron_newman]

I just walked through the lot behind Rite Aid today, and the Business Permit signs have been changed to 8 am - 6 pm.

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