another tedious parking post: 20 ft rule

[serious-noir.livejournal.com]

Ok - here's another tedious parking post.... (yeah yeah ;-)

Got TWO tickets for being within 20 feet of an intersection - on a street I have lived for 15 years - and in a spot I have parked and seen others park many, many times before. In the same general area there are also many little 'stub' parking spaces - where the space between a driveway and the corner/intersection is @ 12-15 feet - so that parking there would not be legal - yet with each one there is a parking sign there citing street cleaning, etc. - so those spaces appear to be legal but are apparently *not* legal, given the 20 foot rule, yet cars there don't get tagged.

I am happy to follow the rules (20 ft == fire engine clearance, etc) and pay the fines if I get them but I am having trouble knowing where the rules apply and where they don't. Parking enforcement seems increasingly arbitrary and capricious or what?? - based on the mood of the ticket person and whether or not they got laid the night before?

I know parking rants are... rants.... and this is also a rant - but I have lived on this same street for 15 years and I really can't tell any more where it it safe to park.

Definitely going to contest this and get my 5 minutes of rant time.

Comments

[spaz-i-mota.livejournal.com]

I've noticed they've been cracking down on this MUCH more than before right in front of my building (orchard/day st)....i actually felt like i was gambling when i got out of my car and will go move it after reading this - in the rain...good luck contesting it!

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

I've said it plenty of times before:

If they really care about keeping people from parking close to corners for safety reasons, they should PUT UP NO PARKING SIGNS!

Yes, that would cost money. But so does hiring meter maids to issue tickets. And it's the only way to actually fix the problem. With no signs, there will always be someone who doesn't know the rule, or mis-estimates 20 feet, and park where the city doesn't want them to. If they put up signs, the rule is no longer a secret, and nobody has to whip out a measuring tape.

[lbmango.livejournal.com]

on at LEAST paint the curb where they don't want you to park. That costs less than a sign.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

Parking enforcement seems increasingly arbitrary and capricious or what?? - based on the mood of the ticket person

Yes.

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

Ditto on the brilliance of painting curbs. Just paint them where you don't want cars to park! It's likely less expensive than all the time they have to spend in court detailing the rules for each specific space that gets ticketed.

[intuition-ist.livejournal.com]

i'd be laughing so hard i'd fall over if *everyone* who got a ticket in Somerville decided to contest. if people automatically contest, the system would get so backed up that the higher-ups might actually notice, and tell the 'parking officers' to be a little less arbitrary.

i really don't want my default attitude toward city government to be disgust and contempt, but they're working really hard to push me that way. :(

how's that for a rant?

[ringrose.livejournal.com]

Last night, they towed a car from the corner of Highland and Hancock. It was quite a production - cops, tow truck, and big truck of supplies.

Looks like the car was blocking the pedestrian ramp, and they needed to mark the crosswalk.

[zaarwin-devolve.livejournal.com]

Wow, so that's what all that was about? (I was walking home from Davis.) I figured there had been a crash or whatever.

[ringrose.livejournal.com]

That's a guess, based on what I saw from down the street and what I saw when I looked at the intersection this morning. I could be wrong.

+1

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

Seriously, if they're willing to put signs on either side of every damn driveway on my street in North Cambridge, the least Somerville can do is throw some paint on the curb for intersections. Especially if they're getting to be such hard-asses about it. I hope people write their aldermen!

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

I am happy to follow the rules (20 ft == fire engine clearance, etc) and pay the fines if I get them but I am having trouble knowing where the rules apply and where they don't.

They apply, in all cities and town in MA, within 20 feet of any intersection.

The city has repeatedly said they will NOT mark it - either with paint or signs.

So don't hold your breath.

Awwwww!

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

So, continuous whining about parking rules is OK, but whining about airplane noise is not... Because?...

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

So, what we really need is citizen action. I think Somerville residents should feel free to measure out the appropriate distances and paint marks on the curbs. Spray paint should work just fine.

Re: Awwwww!

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

It's not OK. The last time this came up, the person in question got savaged.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

People complain about arbitrary enforcement, but, what probably happened is parking had stopped enforcing it, and then the fire engine had to get somewhere and couldn't. Thus, chewed asses, thus, more enforcement.

Re: Awwwww!

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

But not this one, apparently.

[pekmez.livejournal.com]

They could not mark it "no parking", but the least they could do is not mark it incorrectly either... Did I read correctly that in that space there is a sign that SAYS you can park with a permit (ie a standard parking sign, no parking during street cleaning, permit parking ex sun, etc), and that sign is less than 20 feet from the intersection? That seems like something the city should fix.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

See my last line.

I brought this up when they said they were going sign the entire city as permit only - I got deafening silence.

Re: Awwwww!

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

People are busy, give them time. Also, the OP is more reasonable than the last person.

[gruene.livejournal.com]

I saw a fire truck trying to turn onto Gorham street and failing because people had parked too close to the intersection. They ended up giving up and going around the block. Furthermore, when someone parks too close, especially if it's some giant SUV with tinted windows, you need to pull half way into the intersection to see the oncoming traffic.

The rules exist of a reason. Please follow them.

[dial-zero.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the OP WANTS to follow them.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

I agree with this.

[dougo.livejournal.com]

I got two tickets for the same thing. (http://dougo.livejournal.com/141239.html) I will probably not contest them, but it's still pretty aggravating. I was trying to park legally, but by trying to be considerate and leave more space I ended up parking illegally without knowing it. I learned my lesson, but markings would definitely help. And being able to register to be notified of a ticket by email would be nice too.

[ron_newman]

But that was on the tiny little streets south of Magoun Square, which are very narrow, almost alley-like. I'm not sure the rule makes as much sense on regular-sized streets.

Re: Awwwww!

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

+1

there is actual confusion here, i.e., a sign insinuating you can park there as long as you have a permit but also possibly conflicting with the 20' rule. not 'i know what i did was totally illegal, but my heart was in the right place! plus, i don't wanna pay!'

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

Two problems with painted curbs:

- There's no laws in Massachusetts to give them any legal meaning. (The same is true in NYS, and NYC even goes so far as to tell people to ignore painted curbs, since they're all unofficial, and therefore don't actually tell you where it's legal or illegal to park.)

- Snow

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

It's not simply a city law, Ron - it's the law all over the Commonwealth.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Actually - our buddy TC told us it's illegal for the city to paint the curb (http://community.livejournal.com/davis_square/1094383.html?thread=10546415#t10546415).

Re: +1

[ethanfield.livejournal.com]

When I was working for the city, the perspective was that there are already too many signs everywhere. Not only would it be expensive, in many cases it would require removing or damaging a tree. The Mayor didn't want to spend a million dollars to make the city uglier.

The compromise was to have the Fire Chief designate the worst intersections (where parking too close to the makes it especially hard to bring a fire engine) and designate them as "Fire Lanes", and putting up signs.

[en-ki.livejournal.com]

What's wrong with painting the curb? Oh hey duh, somebody else answered this just below. Never mind.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

Well, Cambridge and Arlington both have painted curbs in a few spots. Who do I call to have parking tickets issued to the paint?

And what law is it that says towns can't paint curbs, except white paint in fire lanes? I've never seen that law.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

Ok, I browsed through MGL chapters 85, 89, and 90, and I can't find a law regulating parking near intersections.

Do you have a citation for the state law? If not, I think it's safe to assume it's just a collection of individual city/town regulations.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Ask Tom Champion, not me.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Chapter four in the Driver's Handbook from the RMV.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

The driver's handbook isn't the law, and it's full of legal mistakes. See http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/laws/drivmanl.htm and http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/manual-errors.html .

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Fine then - tell it to the friking RMV, and all the cities who claim it's state law.

Regardless - if you got your license in MA, or converted an out of state license to an MA license, part of that process was to say you knew what was in the manual.

You cannot claim ignorance of that which you affirmed you knew, and that manual DOES say "no parking within 20 feet of an intersection".

If you have a Somerville permit, you AGAIN affirmed you knew what the Somerville laws were regarding parking, to include the "no parking within 20 feet of an intersection" law.

The Massachusetts Amendments to the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices recommends all cities adopt the "no parking within twenty (20) feet of an intersecting way" standard.

How can you claim ignorance of that which you have positively affirmed knowledge of, TWICE?

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

I never claimed ignorance. I know Somerville, and most of the other cities and towns I might park in, have local 20-foot laws.

I was just disputing the claim that it's a state law, which would mean the city couldn't change it in situations where it might make sense, as Ron Newman suggested.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

The city, as evidenced by a number of news articles, loves the law the way it is, and why would they ever change a law in such a way that they get less money?

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

And since I'm being a pest and challenging everything you say, there's also nothing on the form for converting an out-of-state license (http://www.mass.gov/rmv/forms/21042.pdf ) about affirming that you read through the Mass driving manual.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they wouldn't. But that's a different issue from whether the state law exists or not.