Dangerous Bicycle Scenario

[xuth.livejournal.com]

I just ran into (almost literally) a very dangerous bicycle scenario in Davis Square this evening.

I was parked at the (somerville provided) bike parking space between Dover and Day St on Holland/Elm St. I got onto Holland/Elm St and rode southeast through the square right in front of a car on Day St with a green light. The problem is that from my vantage point, I have no stop light or stop sign (they are all behind me where Holland crosses Dover) and from this vantage point, Day St intersecting with Elm St is a completely separate intersection from Holland St intersecting with Dover St. But the traffic signals treat it as one intersection. Without knowing all the details of this intersection (which I should, I just have never dealt with this scenario before), I have no reason to think that I should be concerned about traffic coming from Day St. There really needs to be an additional Holland street light at the corner of Day St.

Comments

[komos.livejournal.com]

Where are the Day Street lights situated?

You have a problem, but not a solution.

[cfox.livejournal.com]

Since much (all?) of the Day Street traffic is turning right, even when you have the right of way, you will still need to be cautious of them taking the right on red without noticing you.

Putting the extra light in would tend to trap cars in the intersection, and hinder the flow from Highland onto Dover.

You effectively stopped and parked mid-intersection; legal for you, but not for a car, and when you're not "acting like a car" the onus is on you to watch both the traffic signals and the pedestrian signals.

[xuth.livejournal.com]

There's one in the island and one on one of the Day St corners. But they are purposefully directional so that traffic from other directions can't mistake the signals as applying to them.

The solution: another traffic light

[turil.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right! While it is obviously an unusual scenario, it's certainly one that the traffic engineers should be aware of and take precautions to avoid it happening again. It may seem a little wasteful to put a second traffic light there, it's pretty clear that there should be one, for any kind of traffic (not just bikes) that stops or slows way down in that space.

I'd suggest contacting Traffic and Parking and CC your comment to Rebeka Gerwitz (sp?) the Alderperson for Davis Square.

Re: You have a problem, but not a solution.

[xuth.livejournal.com]

Since much (all?) of the Day Street traffic is turning right
All traffic must turn right from Day St.
even when you have the right of way, you will still need to be cautious of them taking the right on red without noticing you.
a) they still have to stop first (that being part of the requirement of right on red), b) they still have to look for traffic (that also being a requirement of a right on red). On the other hand if they have a green light they don't have to stop and will often take it fairly fast because they many people _know_ it's a fairly short green light in a very long traffic cycle (regardless of the fact that a right on red there is fairly easy). The right on red thing is a red herring and a non-issue.
You effectively stopped and parked mid-intersection
I understand that, but also if you look at the intersection, from my point of view, without knowlege of Davis Square as a whole (which even you clearly don't have because of the question you asked) it looks like I'm getting onto a one way st on a fairly short block and approaching an intersection without traffic control in my direction (as though there were a stop sign for intersecting traffic).
and when you're not "acting like a car"
What the hell is "acting like a car"? I was legal vehicular traffic. Unless specifically designated, public roads are required accomodate any legal vehicular traffic (pedestrians are a separate category and have separate laws). Ok... that's the law anyway, the reality is that Massachusetts largely doesn't care about safe and sanely marked roads and cares even less about bicyclists on those roads. It's just that this particular case was more insideous than most because it was not among the normal sets of problems one gets as a cyclist.

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

Considering that that "no man's land" is where any bikers would start out if they had parked their bike there, maybe some sort of sign should be installed that cautions people to watch for Day St traffic.

Maybe not acting like a car driver, but acting like legal traffic

[turil.livejournal.com]

Bikes are legal road users and (good) traffic engineers do consider bicyclist behavior when designing roadways and signalized intersections. In this case, pulling off the roadway, and onto the sidewalk, to park is a completely normal and legitimate thing for traffic to do, so the city needs to decide what it should do to accomodate this particular traffic pattern.

Also, it's not just bicycle traffic that this scenario could happen to. A motorist that gets stuck in backed up traffic could be caught in that space, or someone stopping for emergency purposes (a flat tire, for example), or even someone dropping an elderly or handicapped passenger off at the building right there. There are many legitimate reasons why traffic would need to stop or slow down on that little block, so it makes sense to design the signals so that everyone knows who's got the right of way at any given time.

[ron_newman]

It would be better to just remove the traffic light facing Day Street entirely, and replace it with a stop sign.

Re: Maybe not acting like a car driver, but acting like legal traffic

[xuth.livejournal.com]

Thank you turil, you're much more diplomatic than I.

Inanimate vs. Animate objects.

[turil.livejournal.com]

I'm always entertained by the folks who say things like "You're not a car!" I always want to reply either:

- You're right, I'm a human being!
- You're so clever! What else did you learn in kindergarden today?

But I usually hold my tongue, since I don't really think they would appreciate it. Hopefully, Cfox will have a sense of humor about it and not take it personally, since it seems to be a common grammatical mistake.

Re: Maybe not acting like a car driver, but acting like legal traffic

[turil.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I am... Sometimes not so much!

[turil.livejournal.com]

Now there's a thought! More environmentally friendly, too...

contacting T&P and Rebekah Gewirtz

[xuth.livejournal.com]

I'd suggest contacting Traffic and Parking and CC your comment to Rebeka Gerwitz (sp?) the Alderperson for Davis Square

I have just done exactly that. And prior to this I emailed the Somerville Bike Committee.

Re: You have a problem, but not a solution.

[figarobear.livejournal.com]

If you came to Holland/Elm from Dover, that may be part of the problem. I believe Dover is one way going out of Davis Sq. There's no sign for anyone leaving Dover from the wrong direction. If bikes are considered "legal vehicular traffic" then aren't they subject to the traffic laws? That being the case, the cars/bikes getting a green light to exit Day St. have to assume that ALL traffic has obeyed the signs/lights and it's clear to turn.

The system is far from perfect. Short of shutting down all auto traffic through Davis (which I whole-heartedly support), there's not much anyone can do but proceed with caution.

Re: You have a problem, but not a solution.

[xuth.livejournal.com]

If you came to Holland/Elm from Dover

um, no... I was legally parked at the city installed bike parking space between Dover and Day. So I was starting my journey after the Holland/Dover intersection but before Day intersects with Holland/Elm, so I did obey all of the signs/lights. Specifically, there were none which is the point of my posting this in the first place.

[komos.livejournal.com]

So, these lights?



I'm assuming that this is approximately the angle that you'd see them as you approached on Holland, correct?

[chumbolly.livejournal.com]

Huh. Ron, I think that's a great idea. It would fix this bike problem, but it would also fix the pedestrian-car issue at Day -- people are always crossing Day at the crosswalk whether or not the light is green. A stop sign would really simplify things, and traffic never backs up there enough to require a light. As a matter of fact, the light causes more back-up than a stop sign would.

[two-stabs.livejournal.com]

lol @ more traffic lights and regulation. So quintissentially Somerville.

Re: The solution: another traffic light

[kglue.livejournal.com]

Another traffic light would probably complicate matters for drivers heading on Holland Ave. into the Square.

(1) To avoid the situation of too many cars getting stuck between the two intersections, there would likely be a delayed red on the new set of lights - this typically encourages drivers to run the light at Holland/Dover when it turns red, which probably isn't good for public safety either.

(2) Also, drivers often will focus on the more distant set of light and end up not registering that the Holland/Dover light comes first. Pedestrians beware.

Re: The solution: another traffic light

[turil.livejournal.com]

I see your point, but I'm not sure that it would really be a problem, and maybe it could even be mounted in a way that Holland traffic couldn't see it until after they passed the Someday?

[hauntmeister.livejournal.com]

Humm. Yeah, that's a much simpler solution than yet another traffic light!

[turil.livejournal.com]

You could also go with the latest trend in completely de-signaling an area, like Hans Monderman has been doing in Europe (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html). I'm all for that solution!

[komos.livejournal.com]

Several years ago, Monderman ripped out all the traditional instruments used by traffic engineers to influence driver behavior - traffic lights, road markings, and some pedestrian crossings - and in their place created a roundabout, or traffic circle.

... because it's been proven all over New England that rotaries prevent accidents.

[xuth.livejournal.com]

Note that the only traffic light that you can see light off of is the first one which is only just starting to come into view 60 degrees off to the left. In the dark you can't see the light posts. Note that by the point where this picture was taken I'm already mostly up to speed and I'm rather close to the intersection. Now imagine this scene in the dark where you can barely see the traffic light posts.
Incidentally, while investigating this this morning I saw someone else do exactly what I posted about.

[ceo]

Actually, the thing that really bugs me about that intersection is the green-left-arrow phase from Highland to Dover that conflicts with the green phase for Holland St. southbound. A green arrow implies to me that I don't have to worry about oncoming traffic, which isn't the case here.