Farewell, trolls

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

Well then. Thank you all for participating in the spirited discussion of the various qualities of Mr. Crepe, the Someday Cafe, and the Diesel (including discussion of the sexual orientation of various owners and clientele). Many of you were civil and level-headed, for which I am greatly appreciative. Anthonydreamer and Anomie666 were neither, for which I have banned them. (They had previously been warned.)

You may now carry on with your regularly scheduled actual community discussion.

Comments

[transformergeek.livejournal.com]

Damn, I missed all the fun.

[kpht.livejournal.com]

i think you're mistaken in calling them trolls, since they've previously actively participated in the community and actually had something to say.

Part of the reason b0st0n is so successful and funny is that people are allowed to pick apart the posts of others and get very snarky. very rarely do people get banned, and they actually really deserve it when they do.

but i find i have dwindling interest in communities when moderators over-moderate and don't let one side have it out with the other.

[tut21.livejournal.com]

There's a big difference between picking apart the posts of others and personally attacking other users for no good reason. In my opinion the author of the deleted post did the latter.

After reading one too many ugly comments I found this nice killfile script (http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/4107) for the Firefox extension greasemonkey (http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/). It seems to work well and I recommend it.

[turil.livejournal.com]

I don't know what people got banned for, but if people wanted to continue any of the conversations that got deleted in the process, feel free to bring them over to the Wholistic Enchilada (http://community.livejournal.com/whole_e/) community, if you want. That way the Davis Square community can stay level headed and civil, and less civil and more wonkey headed conversations can have a place to play, too :-)

[bryant]

Since this is the first banning I've noticed from the new mod team, I'm not deeply concerned about over-moderation just yet.

[oakenguy.livejournal.com]

Different strokes, different folks; I often find the discussions on b0st0n to be abrasive and confrontational for no real reason other than a desire to be 'edgy', and know people who avoid it because they perceive it as all attacks, all the time. I'm glad that davis_square is doing something different.

[turil.livejournal.com]

I too am concerned, mostly because I don't know what happened. I saw nothing really bad, just some silliness mixed in with a few honest opinions. So I'm wondering why the moderator felt compelled to pull the plug on people. Maybe some clarification would be helpful?

[rxrfrx.livejournal.com]

the worst kind of troll is the kind that you'd hesitate to dismiss completely. anomie666 is a perfect example of that- he's always saying stupid stuff that's just sensible enough to waste your time. that, and the fucking user icon.

[infinitehotel.livejournal.com]

Didn't see the argument in question (how could I? It was removed before most people could form an opinion) but I've got to say, bannings and deletions strike me as a childish and overprotective response. Davis Square (both the group and the neighborhood) isn't high school; people are quite capable of choosing whether to engage or ignore people with opinions that vary from their own either by choice or by easily configured electronic means. Personally, I'd be happy if the moderator's only purpose was to prevent blatant spamming/trolling of the group. Anything else strikes me as having a overprotective parent telling me what I can and can't read.

And you know, that didn't go down too smoothly the last time either...

[prog.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'd be happy if the moderator's only purpose was to prevent blatant spamming/trolling of the group

Thing was, this was pretty much what was going on. And I'm not sure I can recall the mods doing this more than maybe once over the previous calendar year, so I think things are going fairly well, really...

[infinitehotel.livejournal.com]

If so, great! With the post in question deleted there was no way to know.

[prog.livejournal.com]

It is a bummer. If there's a way to freeze posts a la phpBB boards it might be a nice alternative, but I'm not sure that there is.

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

As I said, they were both warned before: Anthonydreamer in this post (http://community.livejournal.com/davis_square/749954.html) (which was also an inflammatory contentless post), Anomie in comments deleted from an earlier post. They may have occasionally indeed contributed constructively, but they were also trolls, all the same.

But note that, even though people suggested I delete the post linked to above, I let it stand (with the warning). I don't think I (or the other mods) can really be accused of overmoderating. If anyone chooses to stop reading and posting in the community because of this, I'll be sorry to lose their contributions, but I do stand by my decision.

for those who didn't get to see it for themselves...

[ayelle.livejournal.com]

Late in the thread, the troll gleefully admitted that he was a troll who was trying to inflame the community. If moderators aren't going to ban that sort of thing, why have them at all?

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

It was, as prog says, blatant trolling. The original poster in fact admitted as much in one comment. And again, this wasn't done in haste or wantonly; this was done to people who have come to this community specifically to stir up trouble in the past.

As far as the "removed before most people could form an opinion" part goes: I in fact had just gotten home and discovered the post with, I think, 84 comments already on it. I didn't check the timestamp of the original post, but it seemed that it'd been around long enough to generate more than enough discussion; and given the tone of the original post and many followup comments from Anthonydreamer and Anomie666, there was no more need to leave it for more people's opinions than there would be to leave a pile of trash on the sidewalk just so everyone could know why you'd fined the litterbug.

[kpht.livejournal.com]

also, i guess the one thing that sort of turns me off is when a mod posts about banning someone. i can't really place my finger on why, but it happens in some communities more than others (first time i've seen it here). i guess not only are you acknowledging the trolls' existance, but it's also like showing off that you're a mod. maybe it's just me and i'm totally overreacting, but i enjoy the silence. other than that instance, this mod's been pretty good.

[cutieperson]

there is, but i am not sure if the mods can do it or just the original poster...

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

Ah. Yeah, I did hesitate before posting this--it did seem better, perhaps, to just ban them and let it go. I posted mostly because I did feel that I needed to delete the entire discussion (it had taken, in places, an ugly turn, and that was from a pretty unpleasant starting point); and I didn't really think I could do that without saying something.

[aspasia02.livejournal.com]

the OP was starting with personal attacks - I saw two and I stopped reading around then, so there could have been more by the time the thread was pulled.

[capsicumanuum.livejournal.com]

Mods can in fact freeze comment threads.

[aspasia02.livejournal.com]

actually, I appreciate when a moderator acknowledges having deleted a post. Otherwise there's no way to know if it was for a disciplinary reason (for lack of a better word/term) or if the OP just got snippy and took it down. I think you've handled this very well, so thanks for that.

hmm...

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

I think it's a problem to have banned the two people AND pulled the thread. I didn't see it so I have no idea what was going on. Seems a bit of overzealous moderation...

[ron_newman]

For those who missed it, the original poster (anthonydreamer) said we should all boycott Mr. Crepe because its owner had allegedly lied to the greater Davis Square community (not to be confused with the LJ commnity of the same name). The post was inflammatory, and on a topic that many folks here are tired of hearing about, but still initially within the bounds of reasonable discourse.

Unfortunately the discussion quickly degenerated into flaming, fanned further by anthony's posting of personal insults towards me. An equally pointless side discussion developed regarding whether straight males felt 'ostracized' at Diesel Cafe.

I won't miss anthony, but I wouldn't mind seeing anomie666 return. I know that his conservative Republican views don't play especially well in Davis Square, but wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed about everything?

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I had no idea what his political views might be. My first encounter with him was when he went out of his way to post a link to a b0st0n_snark discussion about a davis_square posting; by the time he referred to the moderators of this community as Nazis (which pushes a particular linguistic button of mine; but additionally seemed oddly misguided, since I did delete the post of his that was purely attacking, but never deleted anything for political content, as he was suggesting), it was time for him to go.

[jadelennox]

I'm with oakenguy on this one. I find community bulletin boards to be useful but I'm driven off by the tone of many internet discussions. I avoid ArlingtonList for precisely this reason -- the mods refuse to moderate discussions, and so what could be a useful board rapidly degenerates. (I think what finally drove me off was an announcement of an elementary school play prompting a flamefest about the waste of our tax dollars.)

So from my perspective, kudos to the mods -- there are plenty of other places in the regional blogosphere where snark is appropriate, and I'm glad to have a community noticeboard where I don't feel unwelcome.

Re: hmm...

[siderea]

I've got to say, bannings and deletions strike me as a childish and overprotective response

Allow me to suggest you recalibrate. Bannings and deletions are precisely the adult response to adults who behave like unruly children. The adult world has rules, and adults are expected to be able to follow them. We let little children run amok under the premise that they can't do better, but we hold adults to a higher standard.

We're all, presumably, adults here; we presumably know how to disagree without being disagreeable; we can read the rules as posted; and if we don't follow them, it is only reasonable that we get thrown out. Here in the adult world, we are presumed to be capable of coloring within the lines. Those who demonstrate otherwise are escorted out, the same as a five year old inadvisedly brought to an opera.

Re: hmm...

[tut21.livejournal.com]

Well said, siderea.

[two-stabs.livejournal.com]

'An equally pointless side discussion developed regarding whether straight males felt 'ostracized' at Diesel Cafe.'

The problem may be antecdotal and (apparently) limited in scope, but I think 'pointless' is diminishing and an attempt to bury the issue.

[hissilliness.livejournal.com]

I hope that davis_square does not become any more like b0st0n.

[jmspencer.livejournal.com]

That's, in fact, why I avoid b0st0n, and since once of the banned folks is one of the primary offenders, I'm kind of glad to see them gone from here.

[yakshaver.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[ron_newman]

It was here in davis_square, yesterday, and it was deleted after about four hours and 80+ comments.

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

I think the "pointlessness" of the discussion wasn't its subject, but the fact that its tone occluded the subject.

If you think there's an issue worth discussing, you can certainly start a new post to discuss it, if the post and the discussion are kept civil and constructive. (I'll go ahead and add my two cents: I've been a straight male for as long as I can remember, and I've never been made to feel unwelcome at the Diesel, by patrons or staff. And by "never", I mean, I wrote my dissertation there, so I was there for perhaps eight-hour days perhaps four days a week for the better part of a year.)

[hrafn.livejournal.com]

No complaint here. I last saw the thread well before it hit bottom, but it was clearly heading there, and given what others have said about the original poster purposely setting up a flame war - good riddance.

[elements.livejournal.com]

It sounds like the right modly choice to me, from what everyone is saying, so kudos for taking the stand even though you probably knew there'd be some flack. I definitely fall into the camp that appreciates there being modding here.

One suggestion for future, if something similar arises, is to archive the offending post and comments offline and then make them available to anyone who asks to see for themselves. I've found that that level of transparency can easily quell complaints about "overmodding." You could just print-to-pdf for the main entry and the threads with comments that merited the banning and deletion.

[tahnan.livejournal.com]

Yeah--in retrospect, I do wish I'd saved some version of the post-and-comments. But, well, water under the bridge and all that.

[ron_newman]

Is there any way for a moderator to hide a post from members of the community, without actually deleting it? If a post in a community is private, does that make it hidden?

excellent decision (and a question)

[enochs-fable.livejournal.com]

...for all the reasons mentioned below.

A side questions - has there been any more moderator discussion on the suggestions regarding tags and layout from the previous discussion about avoiding overrepetition of "where's a gym?" posts?

[ron_newman]

I was wondering about that too. A group of people went off to create a wiki, and the moderators were going to totally change the tagging mechanism, so that everyone could create a tag or put a memory into the community. What happened with all that?

[komos.livejournal.com]

There's no one to take the lead on the project, so while it might be a good idea, it looks like it's going to stay that way.

[ron_newman]

There are only four moderators so I think they were planning to do this together. I'm willing to help if needed.

[komos.livejournal.com]

I was referring specifically to the wiki, but yes, tags need to be overhauled as well.

[elements.livejournal.com]

Posts in communities can only be public or friends-only (ie, community-members only).