More on trash and holidays

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

To recap:
* Yesterday was a municipal holiday in Somerville which supposedly means that trash pickup is delayed by one day for the entire week.
* However, some people reported that their trash was picked up yesterday, per the usual (non-holiday) schedule.
* Yesterday afternoon I posted in this community saying that I had received email from the city confirming that yesterday's trash pickup was in error and that pickups would indeed be delayed this week.
* But this morning orbitalmechanic posted in a comment on the aforementioned post, saying that her trash was picked up today, on the usual (non-holiday) schedule.

I've just had another email exchange with Sean Murphy, Director of "Constituent Services" for the city. He now tells me that the trash vendor does go around the regular-day streets, after picking up on the holiday schedule, and collects any trash that was erroneously put out by people who didn't know/remember about the holiday. They do this to reduce clutter and so forth. So, in other words, on a Tuesday of a holiday week, they would collect the Monday streets first (per holiday schedule) and then drive around the Tuesday streets just to get whatever is out; and then they would do the Tuesday streets again on Wednesday, per holiday schedule. Clear as mud?

In any case, Mr. Murphy asked me my opinion of this, whether I think it makes sense to do it this way. So I put it to you as well. What do you think?

Personally I can see both sides. The city is in a bit of a bind here: if they delay the pickups, there will always be at least a few people who forget or don't realize it's a holiday, so we wind up with trash sitting out for a whole extra day. But if they pick up on a Tuesday street on Tuesday, all the residents who thought they were supposed to put trash out on Wednesday get confused (and potentially angry). Then those people are likely to not put their trash out at all, and be angry all over again when the truck comes again on Wednesday!

Thoughts?

BTW, you can email Sean Murphy yourself if you like: smurphy@ci.somerville.ma.us

Sorry to take up so much of your friends-list with trash talk ;)

Comments

[ad-lib.livejournal.com]

ah ok. i noticed when i left my house at noon today that everyone's trash was out, but hadn't been collected yet, whereas its usually picked up at about 7am. so i didn't bother putting mine out.

hopefully it'll get picked up tomorrow! i've got a 20 lb turkey in mine. :x

[nonnihil.livejournal.com]

A sarcastic person might suggest that if the trash people don't know it's a holiday, maybe it's not a real holiday -- and that moreover if it weren't for the Tom Champion call informing everyone of a previously undiscovered holiday then there wouldn't have been a hitch here at all.

A more constructive suggestion would be that Somerville share a printed schedule of pickups with both residents and the trash company in advance, as eg Arlington does, to minimize the chance of anyone being blind-sided.

Or perhaps there is a printed schedule mailing and I just haven't lived here long enough to encounter it?

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I agree w/your point about real holidays -- this particular one seems especially pointless to me considering that NO ONE gets it off work except city employees, so it just seems like a random ridiculous reason to delay trash pickups.

Still, for real holidays, the same issues would pertain; there are likely to be fewer people who forget and accidentally put out their trash on the wrong day, but it does still happen.

I do agree with you that the larger solution, in any case, would have to be better communication. A printed schedule is a good idea. Of course, then there will be people taking the city to task for killing too many trees ;)

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

If the trash collectors have time to do 2 routes in 1 day, why not just pick up Monday and Tuesday's trash on Tuesday during holiday-Monday weeks, and keep the normal schedule for the rest of the week? And announce this as the official schedule, so people would know the one-day-late scheme is no longer in effect.

(With the current scheme, what happens to people on the Friday route? Do the trucks come on Saturday only during holiday weeks?)

[closetalker11.livejournal.com]

If I am reading the situation explanation correctly, this seems like the obvious solution. Am I missing something?

[treacle-well.livejournal.com]

I think that in most residential areas having some trash sit out "a whole day" is not a big deal. Especially since this is likely to happen only a couple of times a year to any extent that might matter. (Most people remember about most of the holidays).

I think it's worse to confuse people who were paying attention to the official pick-up schedule by picking up left-out trash on the official "wrong" day.

[thegecko.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered about this, the trash people get the monday off, but then have to work on saturday to get all the trash?

[eeyorecol.livejournal.com]

I had the same thought about the Friday pick up people. It's not much of a holiday week for the trash collectors if they have to work on Saturday to catch up...

[treacle-well.livejournal.com]

I think that it's probably do-able when the trash pick-up on the "wrong" route is light (because it's really only a portion of the trash that would ordinarily be out), but if this were applied officially then it would really be two full routes and there might not be time for that.

[rikchik.livejournal.com]

I really think sticking with holidays that other people get off is the only good solution. There are enough people without land lines that there's no way to avoid the confusion - especially since the recycling trucks did NOT pick up yesterday, on my Monday-route street. (My non-land-line downstairs neighbors had taken their recycling back in and only put it back out when I explained the situation.) But for real holidays like Labor Day, if you forget it's your own fault.

If the point is to give the trash guys the day off, then give them the day off - coming by on a holiday is too confusing, and if a few people leave their trash out for 24 hours, it's a small price to pay. If they come by on the normal day anyway, what was the point of giving them the day off?

[toonhead-npl.livejournal.com]

FWIW in Dorchester we had trash pickup today. I always check the Glob to see what the schedule is because I never can remember which holidays really count in this case.

[hahathor.livejournal.com]

Not to mention the fact that they have to go over two routes for the entire week after a holiday.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

"A more constructive suggestion would be that Somerville share a printed schedule of pickups with both residents and the trash company in advance"

They did. As I noted at the time Bunker Hill Day was noted as a holiday in one place but not in another on that print out (on the calendar but not on the list of holidays or vice versa? Can't remember now.)

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

" this particular one seems especially pointless to me considering that NO ONE gets it off work except city employees, so it just seems like a random ridiculous reason to delay trash pickups."

Keep in mind that while the garbage and recycling are picked up by Russell, yard waste and speciality items (such as white goods) are picked up by city employees. So it could mean that your trash would be collected on Monday and your yard waste on Tuesday.

I think the real problem is we communicate too much. If we just guess and put our trash out when everyone else does it mostly magically goes away :-)

[hauntmeister.livejournal.com]

I got a robo-call from the city telling me that trash pickup would be delayed a day ... but when I got home today, half my neighbors had empty garbage cans in front of their houses!

I called 311 (generic city info line) and they told me that the trucks were essentially making double runs this week.

The Trash Schedule

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

Here's a link to the pdf of the Environmental Services Mailing, which should have been mailed to every household in March or so:

http://www.ci.somerville.ma.us/CoS_Content/documents/EnvironmentalService%20Guide%202007_Final.pdf

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Um...so your comment is basically a re-statement of my post to which you're replying. Your point?

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

If the trash collectors have time to do 2 routes in 1 day
But they're not really doing 2 full routes in one day; they're doing one full route and one "quick ride through" of another neighborhood to pick up the strays.

With the current scheme, what happens to people on the Friday route? Do the trucks come on Saturday only during holiday weeks?
Yes. And as others pointed out, this means that the trash collectors don't actually get a day off. But I'm not sure they'd see working a double day (as per your suggestion) as any better. It seems to me that trash collection is a job where you can't really get full days off -- every route has to be collected every week, regardless of how you juggle the schedule.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

See, I'm inclined to think the reverse. If people are paying attention and get confused, the worst that happens is they have extra trash hanging around for another week. Chances are that it'll only have to happen once before they start going "gee, last time there was a holiday the trucks came on the regular day anyhow" or "gee, last time they came twice so it'll be okay."

By contrast, trash sitting out for a whole day is unsightly, a potential health hazard, a rodent magnet. In summertime it can get extremely stinky, and in wintertime, especially when the sidewalks are already crowded with snow/ice, having trash cans sitting out for a whole day can really cause traffic/congestion issues. Plus strong winds can blow the cans around, make a mess, cause potential driving hazards.

Like I said, I see both sides but I lean more toward the double pickup.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

Seems to me Somerville screwed up communicating with their contractors and are now trying to pretend they didn't. Because, you know, I've never noticed the garbage trucks going around just to check on the regular day if it's, say, Christmas.

[davelew.livejournal.com]

So, you're saying that trash sitting around for one day is bad, but trash sitting around for seven days is OK?

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I'm saying that trash sitting on the sidewalk, uncovered, for one day is bad, whereas trash sitting inside a covered can next to the house (per the city's new rules for trash storage), or inside the house, for seven days, is OK -- not great, but acceptable.

[davelew.livejournal.com]

How about continuing with the current double pickup, but leaving flyers with the people who accidentally put their trash out, say in the recycling bins?

I have two problems with the current situation. First, those people who make a mistake with the trash never realize it. For example, my normal trash day is Tuesday, delayed until Wednesday this week. As I was putting trash out tonight, my neighbor told me that I had missed the trash day, (she put her trash out yesterday and it got picked up). Second, people who try to obey the rules can get confused and not realize that some trash is being picked up two days in a row, resulting in storing more garbage in residential areas. Even with the new trash can regulations, that can't be healthy. I think distributing flyers would help with both of these problems.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

What the hell holiday happened anyway?

Why can't somerville employees (especially those damn infernal parking office people) work a reasonable work week? If I have to be miserable 40+ hours a week, so should the city!

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

You make some excellent points. I absolutely agree that more widely distributed information is the key. Particularly when it comes to little-known holidays like this one. With more well-known holidays, most people can remember that the trash pickup will be delayed, but if you're not even aware that it's a holiday, it's another story.

Re: The Trash Schedule

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

OK, on the one hand I do (vaguely) recall receiving that in the mail, and it does list Bunker Hill Day as a trash-delaying holiday.

On the other hand, though, who really keeps this thing around and consults it regularly to make sure that they're putting out trash on the right day? No one. On a well-known holiday, some people might think "oh, I better check the trash schedule" but more likely they will just assume that trash is delayed a day. Whereas on a not-well-known holiday, it doesn't even occur to them to look at the schedule because they don't know that it's a holiday!

So I don't think that simply having a list of the holidays is going to help. There needs to be a more proactive way of re-reminding people when a holiday is approaching -- especially a minor one. And clearly the robocalls aren't enough, although I do think they help some.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what land lines have to do with it. Anyone can sign up for the robocalls, using any phone number they choose.

I kind of agree with your other point about giving the trash guys the day off, but I don't think that's really the purpose of these minor holidays. Trash collectors aren't city employees; they're employed by the contracted company. Then again, I'm not really claiming that I understand the purpose of the minor holidays....

[rikchik.livejournal.com]

Anyone can, but not everyone does. However, I get the robocalls even though I didn't sign up, I assume because I have a land-line.

And if the trash guys aren't city employees, then why delay trash pickup? OK, I see above that there's some kinds of trash that are picked up by city employees - but it all still seems ridiculous.

(One friend I was discussing it with suggested that perhaps the trash collectors get overtime pay for working on Monday. Which would mean that we just get to pay extra _and_ be confused.)

[derekp.livejournal.com]

This has bothered me for YEARS. Seriously. One of my household chores growing up was bringing out the garbage and recycling and every time trash pickup was delayed because of the holiday, I would spend a good 10 minutes trying to figure out how it made sense, and I never could.

The only thing I can figure is that maybe the garbage collection company rotates that holiday amongst many crews. So while sometimes a crew would get the short end and would have to work Saturday to make up for Monday, sometimes they would get the weekend and Monday off. The problem with this theory is that it leaves extra work to be done by the collectors who are working (to make up for the rotating crew that is off).

Either this makes no sense, or there's something about garbage collection I don't understand.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I think that fundamentally garbage collection differs from other jobs in that it has to be done within the week. If you take a day off from a regular office job, the work is still there, but it doesn't matter if you do it the following week (specific deadline-oriented tasks excluded). On the other hand, for a garbage-collection route, there are five zones, and each of them MUST be collected within the span of each week. You can't say, "well, Monday's a holiday so I'll skip Zone A this week and do it next week." You have to find a way to do Zone A this week, despite the holiday. Whether that means doing two shifts on Tuesday or adding a shift on Saturday or whatever -- either way, it has to get done.

I don't actually know how they manage it though. Maybe they have a part-time crew that just helps to fill in on holiday weeks?

[m-b-w.livejournal.com]

Bunker Hill Day was noted on the list of holidays but not on the calendar (where it was highlighted as if it was a day that would include yard waste pick-up). I wondered if maybe this, or just the fact that few people are aware of or get work off for Bunker Hill Day, was the reason for the call from Tom Champion. I don't remember ever getting a call about a Monday holiday and trash pick-up before.

They've done this before

[avjudge]

I did not know until this morning that Monday was a holiday, but recognized the signs (and was repeatedly saying "but there was no holiday this week" until I checked here). The late pickup on the regular day (Wed. for me) and early, quick rounds on the day after have happened before!! - on another recent holiday, I guess Memorial Day week. I panicked on my regular day (thinking the holiday schedule wasn't happening, as I hadn't put my trash out), but a neighbor told me she had called 311 and was told that the trucks would come around again the next day.

I think the poster who said it's possible because of the lighter trash volume is right. It makes sense. The have some extra time on Tuesday after picking up the regular Monday trash so they pick up some of the regular Tuesday trash from those who forgot. Then on Wed. there's less regular Tuesday trash, so they get done a little earlier and go hit the regular Wednesday streets. And so on.

Works for me. I got my trash picked up yesterday, the normal day but about 6 hours late, and it didn't end up sitting out for 36 hours. And practically everybody else on my street did the same. Apparently almost no one knows about this holiday.

MY complaint is that this morning, they just tossed my yard waste into a garbage truck.

Anne

[tt02144.livejournal.com]

Bunker Hill Day is a REAL holiday, always celebrated locally, unfortunately, all holidays are receiving less and less notice, and fewer people receive them as days off (mostly municipal and state employees.) This does not mean that it's not a day worth noting, along with Patriots Day, Evacuation Day, VJ Day, Veteran's Day, Columbus Day, etc. These are important historical holidays, particularly for people living in this area, and I find it sad that people (especially in the school system and in the media), take so little note of them. Check the Globe every year for their coverage of the Boston Maration, and their coverage of historical Patriots' Day re-enactments, which happen on the same day!
That being said, I think that the deal with the trash pick-up is that if they finish their route and have time, they will pick up trash inadvertently left out on the wrong day. It's relatively random, so you can't really count on it happening each time.
I think if the city posted this information and mailed it to households, and also did the 'robo-call' thing, they've done enough. How many times can you expect to be reminded about trash pickup?
My guess is that the Russell Disposal guys work on the city schedule, so they probably had the Monday holiday also. They would probably make up the extra day (saturday) by being paid time and a half, or by getting a 'comp' day to use when they please. This is typical in municipalities to cover such circumstances.