[identity profile] derekp.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] davis_square
We're a few days removed from the first winter storm of the year, and yet many stretches of sidewalk in and around Davis Square are still covered in ice. Simpson Ave seems particularly bad as you get towards the Broadway end of the street and Cutter was no Picnic last night either. I can only imagine the folks who live there are renters, as I would think owner residents would not want to risk the liability. One trip to Home Depot or Tags and a few seconds tossing a small amount of rock salt on the ground will fix this. Please everyone do their part to keep the sidewalks in our neighborhood safe all winter.

Is there recourse for pedestrians in Somerville when folks do not clear the sidewalk or does it simply become a legal issue if/when someone slips and falls? I'd like to see the city stepping up to clear bad areas, perhaps citing landlords and residents who repeatedly fail to keep the sidewalk safe.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:18 pm (UTC)
ifotismeni: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ifotismeni
if i remember correctly, that whole area is a lot of students and new renters. in many cases the owner is responsible, not the renters. (in my case, i am responsible, but i hear i'm an exception.)

i was under the impression there were fines for uncleaned sidewalks but i could be wrong.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuth.livejournal.com
The owners are ultimately responsible but they can pass some of that responsibility on to you in your lease if all parties agree to it.
There are fines for not clearing the sidewalk in front of your property but they've certainly not kept up with inflation and border on trivial ($25 for first offence, up to $100 for nth offence but since the people writing the tickets don't keep track it's almost always $25).

Date: 2007-12-07 07:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bombardiette.livejournal.com
Brochure says residents, not home owners. (See link below). It's pretty vague otherwise.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bombardiette.livejournal.com
According to the Somerville Snow Emergency Brochure (http://www.somervillema.gov/CoS_Content/documents/SnowBrochureFinal.pdf) on the City's website, residents are responsible for shoveling and sanding their sidewalks within 6 hours of the lifting of a snow emergency.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] damsel-ophelia.livejournal.com
Unfortunately, there isn't. All you can do is call 311 and complain about it. Supposedly, people get cited for not keeping the sidewalks clear. And in MA, "natural accumulation of snow and ice" is not enough of a reason for the owner to be held liable for medical bills. I found this out the hard way last when I broke my tailbone as a result of a fall on College Ave.

Date: 2007-12-09 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bobobb.livejournal.com
Sorry about your fall -- as a side note, your pict is amazing!

blah blah blah, long comment.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lonelyholiday.livejournal.com
I'm interested to see what happens this year at the Kennedy School over near Porter. In the past, they have kept their sidewalks clear on school days, but completely ignore the ice on weekends or snow days. Which is fine for the sidewalks within the school property (between the parking lot and playground and doors), but the rest of the community still uses the many yards of sidewalk that line the street around the property, even if there's no school. I've nearly wiped out there too many times to count.

Last year, I left a very polite message at a number I found on the city website - can't remember if it was a number specifically for reporting this kind of issue, or just a general line - saying that I didn't know if public school property was the school's responsibility or the city's, but that someone should be clearing those walks. I didn't see much change.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elements.livejournal.com
I'd love it if there were a good recourse. I think part of the issue is that for general ice & snow, rather than emergencies, I think it's the landlord's job not the renters', and most folks aren't excited about doing free work for absentee landlords.

In my building of 2 apartments, a couple of us living there generally take turns, but there's only so much I have time (or am willing to get sore muscles) for shoveling in any one winter, so I don't do it all the time. It's been hard enough getting ordinary repairs done, so I'm not going to push the landlord. I expect my situation is not unique.

That said, I really wish people would at minimum put down rock salt, which is neither hard nor expensive to do. I've already fallen down twice. Blech.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] closetalker11.livejournal.com
Hi there --

I rent my apartment and regularly shovel and de-ice my sidewalk. The same goes for the other renters in my building. So, I'd appreciate it if you'd be careful about you're assuming.

Anyway, I also find the sheets of ice on sidewalks incredibly annoying (and unsafe!), especially as I walk to work. Last night while walking home, I seriously considered buying a bunch of salt and salting the entire neighborhood myself!

FYI, Simpson is indeed bad, but left side of the street (left if you're walking from Holland towards Broadway) is much better. Russel Street (off of Elm, across from the Domino's) is equally bad.

If I am correct, there is some fine associated with leaving ice/snow on your sidewalk if it's reported, but I am having trouble finding any information about it. Maybe dial 311?

Date: 2007-12-07 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lonelyholiday.livejournal.com
Anyway, I also find the sheets of ice on sidewalks incredibly annoying (and unsafe!), especially as I walk to work. Last night while walking home, I seriously considered buying a bunch of salt and salting the entire neighborhood myself!

Maybe buy a bag and rig up some sort of backpack with a hole at the bottom so it's just distributed as you walk. ;)

All of these comments are making me so grateful for my landlords, who operate a business out of the first floor of our house. I've been totally willing to help the few times I've been up and out before they're finished, but they're super-early birds and almost always have the sidewalks cleared by the time I leave for work.

So now I can never move. I'm spoiled.

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From: [identity profile] closetalker11.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-07 09:15 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-12-07 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tastyanagram.livejournal.com
I'm also a renter and I also regularly shovel and de-ice our sidewalk. I didn't read this entry as assuming that all renters didn't perform these duties. Instead I read it as proposing that the people who don't clear their walks are more likely to rent. Which, unfortunately, I've found to be true.

I love the salt idea too...it'd be interesting to salt your own paths around the neighborhood and see where you travel. :-)

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From: [identity profile] closetalker11.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-07 09:40 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-12-07 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuth.livejournal.com
Hmmm, I said the owners were responsible and someone corrected me saying it was the resident... we're both wrong. Per Somerville law, section 12-8 "No owner, tenant, or occupant of land or a building abutting upon a sidewalk within the limits of any public way in this city, and no agent of such owner having the charge of such land or building shall place or suffer to remain on such sidewalk for more than six hours between sunrise and sunset on any day, any snow or any ice, unless such ice is made even and covered with sand or other suitable material to prevent slipping."

Date: 2007-12-07 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] closetalker11.livejournal.com
So, wait ... is that saying that anyone has to get rid of snow within 6 hours, or that no one does?

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From: [identity profile] thetathx1138.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-07 07:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] closetalker11.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-07 09:35 pm (UTC) - Expand

So, like, everyone is responsible?

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Date: 2007-12-07 07:43 pm (UTC)
ursamajor: people on the beach watching the ocean (Default)
From: [personal profile] ursamajor
Seriously. The entirety of Beacon Street between Ivaloo and Morgan, I feel safer *walking in the middle of the street after dark* than daring that slippery mess.

(Yes, I know, not safer, but dammit, it's been like that since Tuesday.)

Date: 2007-12-07 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetathx1138.livejournal.com
You know, speaking as a Davis Square pedestrian...this really doesn't bother me all that much. I'm not enthused about it but honestly, as a lifelong pedestrian, there's stuff in the Square that bothers me a lot more.

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From: [identity profile] thetathx1138.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-07 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-12-07 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] grapefruiteater.livejournal.com
Our landlord hires someone to shovel and put down salt, and they do an excellent job, so it's not out of the question for other landlords to make similar arrangements. I've also called 311 to complain about icy and snowy sidewalks (one house on our block consistently does not shovel). If nothing else, you get the satisfaction of complaining.

I wish the city would just take care of the sidewalks like so many other municipalities outside New England do. New York and Montreal, for example, shovel or snow-blow the sidewalks. Putting the responsibility on residents is a recipe for trouble, especially in a city with so many students and other high-turnover renters.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuth.livejournal.com
Rather than complain, I used to take the opposite tack and just shoveled a path through the snow for my entire block. I never did a great job of it* but at least people could walk on the sidewalk. I've seen similar efforts of people clearing the walk around powderhouse park when the city fails to clear it.

* I make an exception for the people that are genuinely unable to clear the snow and tried to do a decent job for them too.

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From: [identity profile] grapefruiteater.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-07 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

Only sort of related.

Date: 2007-12-07 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lonelyholiday.livejournal.com
This reminds me of a story: My dad me about these people in his neighborhood (in Pittsburgh) who decided that since they were responsible for the sidewalk abutting their house, they also had the right to do whatever they wanted with it. So they dug up the cement and laid down sod. I find this both obnoxious and hilarious.

This was over the summer, I believe, so I need to remember to ask him how that turned out.

Date: 2007-12-07 09:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nonnihil.livejournal.com
I used to live in Arlington, and I have to say they did it better -- the cops' zeal in handing out tickets for unshoveled sidewalks was legendary. Now that I'm in Somerville (and pushing a stroller a lot of the time) I have to say that I'm constantly appalled at how much ice people seem to get away with leaving on their sidewalks.

Date: 2007-12-08 10:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gosling.livejournal.com
Yeah, everyone I know who has tried using a stroller in winter has had a really hard time, and trying to get around in a wheelchair is virtually impossible in a lot of neighborhoods for most of the winter. (My son, now almost three, was born in January; we rapidly discovered that if we wanted to go anywhere at all with him on foot, we pretty much had to use a Baby Bjorn or some similar infant carrying device. The sidewalks were just impassible for wheeled vehicles of any kind.) I'm always afraid when my elderly parents come to visit me that they will slip on the ice, and I worry about some of my older neighbors too.

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From: [identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-09 04:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] gosling.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-12-10 11:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-12-07 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] grapefruiteater.livejournal.com
Thanks for doing that. So it sounds like those of us in different wards should contact our alderpeople?

Date: 2007-12-07 10:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] an-art-worker.livejournal.com
Renter here - and as far as I am concerned, it is my landlord's responsibility since she jacked the rent up a few years ago. The way it works is: you want big rent, you give big service. That may seem selfish but I don't need more chores that are rightly my landlord's responsibility. I used to shovel, take care of the yard and do minor repairs. No longer.

And fwiw - I grew up in a suburb near here where the city was responsible for the sidewalks and had these little sidewalk plows that went around. I guess that chore has been passed off to the residents by now.

Date: 2007-12-07 11:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wildflowersoul.livejournal.com
I don't need more chores that are rightly my landlord's responsibility

Except someone earlier in this thread has pointed out that it's rightly everyone's responsibility. By law, not by "how you feel."

The way it actually works is: you want big rent, people are willing to pay big rent, big rent happens. I don't know what kind of "service" you expect unless you're putting these demands into writing on your lease.

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Date: 2007-12-08 06:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xjustquietx.livejournal.com
Oh yes, this drives me up the wall every year. I noticed somebody wrote this doesn't bother them, and I understand that. There are certainly things that have gotten this community up in arms over that have not bothered me the slightest.

But for some people, not having a shoveled sidewalk to walk down is just plain unsafe and for everyone else a nuisance. I'd hate to think I'd have to get my grandmother a taxi all the way from the T stop just so she could visit me because she would surely fall and break something on the two block trip to my house.

It snowed about an inch on Sunday night, I am amazed that that was too much for some people to shovel.

But I do understand that it's most likely a deadbeat landlord's fault and not the renters'... which makes it so frustrating for me because I'd love to just prank the houses that don't bother shoveling. But if it's not the renters' faults they shouldn't have to suffer.

I really wish the city actually fined people a large amount of money, and fined them more than once a season.

Date: 2007-12-09 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bobobb.livejournal.com
It is the renters fault though, see above.

Date: 2007-12-08 10:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gosling.livejournal.com
On my street there are lots of elderly folks who really aren't physically capable of shoveling their sidewalks. Neighbors help out some, but I wish the city had something set up where folks who really needed help with shoveling could get it somehow. Right now, unless neighbors or whomever know there is a problem and volunteer to help, someone either has to attempt to do a task which s/he really isn't physically capable of doing (and may in fact be physically dangerous if the person has a weak heart or whatever) or else there is an icy hazard to pedestrians in front of their house. Neither option is good.

Date: 2007-12-08 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tt02144.livejournal.com
The thing is that there is a city ordinance regarding the clearing of snow and ice, and fines can be levied, but it is totally unenforceable. The sidewalks are city property and homeowners (or tenants) cannot be required to clear them of snow and ice. Any other time of the year, if you tried to do something on the sidewalk, you would be told in no uncertain terms that it is city property. I love the story about the man who actually went the extra mile and dug up "HIS" sidewalk! Noone wants to be the one with the test case, because they're so afraid of retribution from the city.

Date: 2007-12-09 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bobobb.livejournal.com
How quickly does calling 311 result in a citation?

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