OK - how about the 20 foot law?

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

Since parking laws are under discussion I would like to bring up the 20 ft law (= illegal to park within 20 feet of an intersection). I got a ticket last month on my street for this, in a spot where I and other residents have parked for years. The ticket said I was 8 feet from the intersection. I appealed it by mail and sent photos and got a notice yesterday that my appeal was denied. (fwiw - this is a one way street, off of a one way street and in my humble opinion, there was ample clearance for pedestrians and emergency vehicles).

Ok - so I will pay the $30. ticket- but the thing is, it seems like selective/arbitrary enforcement. Even more, there are numerous spots in this neighborhood where, if this 20 ft law were enforced routinely, would not be legal spots at all- yet folks park in those spots all the time.

Trivial I agree but it seems more about $$$ ("revenue enhancement") than anything else. Also, rather than leaving it to a judgment call by someone tryng to park or the parking enforcement person, there should be clear markings on the curb at the 20 ft mark.

Photo behind the cut. Am I guilty or not? ;-)


 

Comments

[ron_newman]

The only real way to tell is to measure it off, but I really doubt that the crosswalk is 20 feet wide.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

I suspect that you are, indeed, within 20 feet of the intersection. However, there would be very little parking in S'ville if not for this sort of space being used. At least you left the crosswalk alone -- some folks don't even do that. :P

[veda815.livejournal.com]

I don't know about you but I certainly don't want to be the one to blame if the firetruck or ambulance can't turn onto the street if there is a fire or a neighbor is having a heart attack.

[csbermack.livejournal.com]

The fire truck will just drive through your car.

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

Way guilty. The rule is to allow emergency vehicles to come around those corners. If just one is blocked they can still get around it (usually), but if there are cars on both sides they can't.

[ron_newman]

Probably true, but it will still delay the firetruck.

To the original poster: how about taking out a tape measure and measuring the width of that crosswalk? Your rear bumper is a few inches from its right side, and the intersection starts immediately at its left side. A simple measurement would make a lot more sense than asking a bunch of LJ'ers to look at a photograph and guess.

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

Cars are full of flammable gasoline. Fire trucks aren't going to smash into them, even in an emergency.

[csbermack.livejournal.com]

They will scrape between two rows of parked cars if they have to. It's not ideal for anyone, though.

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

fwiw - this is a one way street with parking on only one side.

[docorion.livejournal.com]

Honestly? Guilty, guilty, guilty. Mind you, I've been wrong before, and ron_newman's suggestion to actually measure is a good one, but that's never 20ft, and a fire truck, especially a ladder truck, could not make that turn without taking your car out.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

so, where do they measure from?

i think you're saying from the closest of the two edge lines of the other strees perpendicular to the parked on street yes?

i know sometimes they measure from the center of the street as well for somethings.

also, i know a few people that have gotten out of tickets for parking in special or restricted zones because they were not marked with appropriate curb markings. in particular, fire hydrants - what's the distance on that one for the city?

#

[ron_newman]

That's a good question, but I assume "20 feet from an intersection" means "20 feet from where the curb starts to curve away from a straight line." Which, in this case, is just to the left of the crosswalk.

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

but Ron, that's (part of) the thing: where does the intersection *start*? Is it the street side curb, the end of the sidewalk, the end of the crosswalk? I have no idea.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

an important clarification. i'll dig into the rule if i can find it online in trivial time. they really should just paint them to make the point.

a friend of mine almost got a ticket (written, issued, retracted on the spot) because the guy claimed his meter was out and he wasn't actually parked in the spot. both were incorrect, but it was the ticket writer's opinion, not any measured fact.

someone's 15 feet might be someone's 20 feet. esp if the starting point varies.

#

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

All the more reason to enforce it!

As far as the measurement thing goes, you can just eyeball it. Could you park two cars behind yours without the last car sticking out into the street? If not, you're too close to the curb.

Wouldn't it be great if...

[gildersleeve.livejournal.com]

What if the city, as it gradually repaves and repaints crosswalks/streets, was to mark with white paint, in a similar manner to metered spaces, a line where acceptable parking begins? Not to mark each spot, but just where, as streets begin and end, the parking starts?

It would certainly help clarify situations like this.

Re: Wouldn't it be great if...

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

would work for me. (bronze markers at the curb would be cool too... ;-)

in the interim, if the ticket people walking around just put a simple "day-glo" green (or maybe red) line on the curb, then we would know rather than having to guess.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Guilty.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Some folks should be grateful I don't key obnoxious parkers anymore.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

C'mon, Ron, this proves the point of a lengthy argument I had with another comm member over in the last parking post. Let me have my moment of glory.

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

ah yeah... that would be an asshole thing to do.. (but I guess you have learned that now)

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

some hurls :

http://www.wickedlocal.com/somerville/archive/x468880765

http://weston.govoffice.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7BBE71B4A9-53F7-46C7-91E9-3F3864B1E60B%7D
'''Massachusetts law prohibits parking on state highways, in crosswalks, within 10 feet of a fire hydrant or within 20 feet of an intersection, as well as unauthorized parking in marked Handicapped spaces. Vehicles which violate any of the above regulations may be ticketed. '''

my personal favorite:
'''Right wheel over 12 inches from curb'''

ooh:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ZTvc_Kw8k-IJ:www.ci.somerville.ma.us/CoS_Content/documents/ParkingPoliciesWeb.pdf
unfortunately, nothing on how 20 feet is defined

however, for cambridge:
http://www.cambridgema.gov/traffic/FAQ.cfm?FaqCategoryID=11#265
'''D3 Within 20 ft. of Intersection $20.00

Parking is restricted at intersections to:
*Maintain sight distance so that motorists, pedestrians and bicyclists approaching the intersection can see each other.
*Allow emergency vehicles access to the street.
*Allow snow to be pushed back from corners.
*Allow trucks (trash, plow, street sweeper, heating oil etc.) to safely turn the corner.

Distance is measured from the near curb line of the intersecting street.''' (emphasis mine)

so in the provided picture, due to perspective, etc, that magic line looks like the teeny crack on the far left extending from the curb.

so how wide is that crosswalk? mmm...
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:C2Jc614M60EJ:www.access-board.gov/prowac/comments/lyons-attach.pdf

see: § 1104.3.7 Clear Space and § 1105.2.1 Width which states the somerville standard width of a crosswalk is supposed to be 10 feet.

so at a guess, in the picture, it's 16 feet. hard to tell though.

it's kind of stupid to make people guess this though. the new require fire lane addon requires markings though (30 feet?!).

can't park 48 hours in a row, must move on street every 14 days, lots of people don't have driveways, and must travel... kind of makes it difficult.

#

Re: Wouldn't it be great if...

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Actually, in my neighborhood, just recently they have done exactly that.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I don't know where you live, but in my area, they have stepped up enforcement of the 20-foot rule since there was a fire a few months ago where the rescue efforts were severely hampered by cars parked right up to the corners. They have painted white lines on the streets at each corner, showing where it's illegal to park, and have been ticketing a lot.

Honestly, it sucks for me (and every other driver in the area) because it greatly reduces the number of available parking spaces in a neighborhood where it can already be really hard to find a spot, especially if you get home after 6pm on a weeknight. But on the other hand, which is more important -- my inconvenience, or the fire trucks' ability to get to a burning building?

From your photo it sure looks to me like you are less than 20 feet from the curb, but I'm no expert.

[ron_newman]

To settle a question raised above:

A description of common Somerville parking violations, from the city website:

"Within 20 ft. of Intersection: $30

Parking to [sic] close to intersections creates public safety issues. Distance is measured from the near curb line of the intersecting street."