OK - how about the 20 foot law?

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

Since parking laws are under discussion I would like to bring up the 20 ft law (= illegal to park within 20 feet of an intersection). I got a ticket last month on my street for this, in a spot where I and other residents have parked for years. The ticket said I was 8 feet from the intersection. I appealed it by mail and sent photos and got a notice yesterday that my appeal was denied. (fwiw - this is a one way street, off of a one way street and in my humble opinion, there was ample clearance for pedestrians and emergency vehicles).

Ok - so I will pay the $30. ticket- but the thing is, it seems like selective/arbitrary enforcement. Even more, there are numerous spots in this neighborhood where, if this 20 ft law were enforced routinely, would not be legal spots at all- yet folks park in those spots all the time.

Trivial I agree but it seems more about $$$ ("revenue enhancement") than anything else. Also, rather than leaving it to a judgment call by someone tryng to park or the parking enforcement person, there should be clear markings on the curb at the 20 ft mark.

Photo behind the cut. Am I guilty or not? ;-)


 

Comments

[ron_newman]

The only real way to tell is to measure it off, but I really doubt that the crosswalk is 20 feet wide.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

I suspect that you are, indeed, within 20 feet of the intersection. However, there would be very little parking in S'ville if not for this sort of space being used. At least you left the crosswalk alone -- some folks don't even do that. :P

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Some folks should be grateful I don't key obnoxious parkers anymore.

[veda815.livejournal.com]

I don't know about you but I certainly don't want to be the one to blame if the firetruck or ambulance can't turn onto the street if there is a fire or a neighbor is having a heart attack.

[csbermack.livejournal.com]

The fire truck will just drive through your car.

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

Way guilty. The rule is to allow emergency vehicles to come around those corners. If just one is blocked they can still get around it (usually), but if there are cars on both sides they can't.

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

fwiw - this is a one way street with parking on only one side.

[docorion.livejournal.com]

Honestly? Guilty, guilty, guilty. Mind you, I've been wrong before, and ron_newman's suggestion to actually measure is a good one, but that's never 20ft, and a fire truck, especially a ladder truck, could not make that turn without taking your car out.

Wouldn't it be great if...

[gildersleeve.livejournal.com]

What if the city, as it gradually repaves and repaints crosswalks/streets, was to mark with white paint, in a similar manner to metered spaces, a line where acceptable parking begins? Not to mark each spot, but just where, as streets begin and end, the parking starts?

It would certainly help clarify situations like this.

Re: Wouldn't it be great if...

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

would work for me. (bronze markers at the curb would be cool too... ;-)

in the interim, if the ticket people walking around just put a simple "day-glo" green (or maybe red) line on the curb, then we would know rather than having to guess.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Guilty.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

some hurls :

http://www.wickedlocal.com/somerville/archive/x468880765

http://weston.govoffice.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7BBE71B4A9-53F7-46C7-91E9-3F3864B1E60B%7D
'''Massachusetts law prohibits parking on state highways, in crosswalks, within 10 feet of a fire hydrant or within 20 feet of an intersection, as well as unauthorized parking in marked Handicapped spaces. Vehicles which violate any of the above regulations may be ticketed. '''

my personal favorite:
'''Right wheel over 12 inches from curb'''

ooh:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ZTvc_Kw8k-IJ:www.ci.somerville.ma.us/CoS_Content/documents/ParkingPoliciesWeb.pdf
unfortunately, nothing on how 20 feet is defined

however, for cambridge:
http://www.cambridgema.gov/traffic/FAQ.cfm?FaqCategoryID=11#265
'''D3 Within 20 ft. of Intersection $20.00

Parking is restricted at intersections to:
*Maintain sight distance so that motorists, pedestrians and bicyclists approaching the intersection can see each other.
*Allow emergency vehicles access to the street.
*Allow snow to be pushed back from corners.
*Allow trucks (trash, plow, street sweeper, heating oil etc.) to safely turn the corner.

Distance is measured from the near curb line of the intersecting street.''' (emphasis mine)

so in the provided picture, due to perspective, etc, that magic line looks like the teeny crack on the far left extending from the curb.

so how wide is that crosswalk? mmm...
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:C2Jc614M60EJ:www.access-board.gov/prowac/comments/lyons-attach.pdf

see: § 1104.3.7 Clear Space and § 1105.2.1 Width which states the somerville standard width of a crosswalk is supposed to be 10 feet.

so at a guess, in the picture, it's 16 feet. hard to tell though.

it's kind of stupid to make people guess this though. the new require fire lane addon requires markings though (30 feet?!).

can't park 48 hours in a row, must move on street every 14 days, lots of people don't have driveways, and must travel... kind of makes it difficult.

#

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I don't know where you live, but in my area, they have stepped up enforcement of the 20-foot rule since there was a fire a few months ago where the rescue efforts were severely hampered by cars parked right up to the corners. They have painted white lines on the streets at each corner, showing where it's illegal to park, and have been ticketing a lot.

Honestly, it sucks for me (and every other driver in the area) because it greatly reduces the number of available parking spaces in a neighborhood where it can already be really hard to find a spot, especially if you get home after 6pm on a weeknight. But on the other hand, which is more important -- my inconvenience, or the fire trucks' ability to get to a burning building?

From your photo it sure looks to me like you are less than 20 feet from the curb, but I'm no expert.

[ron_newman]

To settle a question raised above:

A description of common Somerville parking violations, from the city website:

"Within 20 ft. of Intersection: $30

Parking to [sic] close to intersections creates public safety issues. Distance is measured from the near curb line of the intersecting street."

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

Well, there you are. OP: were you less than 20 feet from the near curb line of the intersecting street? If so, pay your ticket.

I do think it would be useful if they marked the curbs, though.

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

NUGGET

[gemini6ice.livejournal.com]

chicken sluggit

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

You do look within 20' to me, though not eight.

This is yet another arbitrarily-enforced parking reg (but because there is good reasoning behind it, it doesn't bother me as much as the 48-hour rule, about which I feel VERY strongly: see my scintillating debate with Tommy C. on the subject (http://community.livejournal.com/davis_square/1093761.html?thread=10515841&style=mine#t10515841)). I agree that marking the curbs would help immensely, even if enforcement remained spotty.

I've also been amused to notice that some streets have actual sanctioned parking that is clearly within 20' of the interaction. WTF?

[pushupstairs.livejournal.com]

there's a "parking spot" in front of the All Asia Bar in Cambridge that is about 4 feet from a hydrant. there is a signpost clearly decreeing that it is acceptable to park 4 feet from that hydrant and not acceptable to park closer than 4 feet from the hydrant. there are also parking meters in the "acceptable" area. I parked here, right in front of the meter, in a "designated" "legal" parking space and my back bumper was... perhaps it was 9 feet away from the hydrant, but no less.

yup, got a ticket.

I took about 27 8x10 color glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was, and mailed them in to the city. but they'll probably just poop on them and tell me to pay it anyway. mail-in hearings are a total joke.

the one parking ticket I got in Somerville that wasn't for street cleaning was for parking too close to an intersection. this ticket was a TOTAL joke in every way. it said I was parked, specifically, 4 feet from the intersection. as the location was one house removed from my apartment, and I always tried to park in front of my apartment whenever possible and actively tried not to park in front of the house on the corner because there was a huge tree there and my car would get shit all over by birds whenever I parked there, I could count on one hand the number of times I had parked there. there was one of the street cleaning notice signs in front of the house, which I had never parked beyond, and which I measured at... 27 feet from the far curb.

also, this ticket was never actually placed on my car. I only learned of it later when I got a late notice.

I marched my ass right into the parking office and called bullshit, and they threw the ticket away. I guarantee they would have never done that if I mailed it in. unfortunately, I don't know how or where to march my ass into Cambridge to do the same.

if they deny my mail-in claim, I'm going to take a day off of work or something and figure out who to talk to in Cambridge, because that $55 ticket is utter horseshit.

[vibrantabyss.livejournal.com]

Since part of the subject is "selective enforcement" I need to chime in. In discussion with the parking office, 8' seems to be about where they start caring. Once I went down to talk about getting a ticket and was told "I haven't looked at the ticket, but if its within X feet, you pay, and if not you don't. Sound fair?" X shall remain anonymous. But was less than 8. I didn't have to pay. I certainly deserved a poke, since I hadn't considered the firetruck thing, much discussed above - and maybe they felt their job was in fact done better since I came in and allowed myself to receive a dressing down, as it were.

For other fictional parking reg measurements - has anyone brought up "not within so many feet of a driveway"? I think the regs say six or eight, but that would nuke half the currently used on-street parking. Several winters ago I was pinned in my driveway prior winters because of that - car within 6" and the snowbank on the other side making the turn impossible. So I called the town - no towing, no ticketing that I saw, have to find another way to work, repeat call in the evening. And the following morn, with similar effect. Offending car was in another spot when I got home the second day...

Given the changes in town policy the last couple of years I doubt that would play out the same way, but...

[ron_newman]

I didn't know there was any rule about driveways. When I still had a car, I would park as close to them as possible, to maximize the amount of street-parking space for my neighbors.

[shirt-seeker.livejournal.com]

Where I come from you have to park 15 feet from a zebra crossing anyway...

thanks for the comments

[an-art-worker.livejournal.com]

gonna get me a tape measure... ;-)

Re: thanks for the comments

[aquaflame16.livejournal.com]

just use your feet :)

[cold-type.livejournal.com]

One possible solution: Amend the law to say that a car may not be ticketed, unless the 20' line is marked by a sign or a mark on the curb.

Meanwhile, it turns out the city of Somerville officially bans parking "in front of any private road or driveway, including 2 feet in either direction from the driveway or private way."
http://www.ci.somerville.ma.us/CoS_Content/documents/TrafficRegulations.pdf

But my guess is that the "2 feet" rule isn't enforced. The law doesn't call for any penalties unless you are "Obstructing" a driveway. So, if the driveway isn't blocked, my guess is the police won't get a ticket.
http://www.somervillema.gov/Section.cfm?org=TRAFFIC&page=1047

Similarly, the law also bans parking on a city street "for a period of time exceeding 24 consecutive hours, whether the vehicle is
disabled or not and preparations are being made by the owner or operator for its removal. Article
X Sec 10-5 (i)." But the city only lists a penalty ($20) for parking more than 48 hours in one spot. (Seems weird to me.)

[josephineave.livejournal.com]

Depending on the street, parking within 2 feet may make it impossible to get out of the driveway. You will even see some residents have painted lines or put up signs to stop encroaching. I'm lucky that my curb cut is huge and I can give a parker up to a foot of my cut before they get a nasty note.

This is for the Mini Cooper drivers out there: You can park 2 cars your size in the break between driveways. No fair taking up a whole spot by yourself.

[pushupstairs.livejournal.com]

I remember an awesome time (and probably another place that I lived) where everywhere that it was illegal to park was marked on the curb with yellow paint (and red for hydrants, even!) so you could KNOW where not to park.

[spot.livejournal.com]

Chicago definitely does this.

[0bsessions.livejournal.com]

That's not even approaching twenty feet of distance and I'm almost depressed you can't find that obvious. If you're so absolutely confident that that isn't twenty feet, lie down in the street with the bottom of your feet on your tires. Now, mark a line with chalk at the top of your head. Now lay down again, this time with your heels to the line you marked. That's not all, though! If you're US average male height, we're not even twelve feet from your car! Now, repeat one more time and we'll mark it off at a good sixteen feet or so.

Okay, got it all? Good. Now lie in that spot for forty-five minutes and let natural selection run its course.

[buckturgidsen.livejournal.com]

Okay, agreed that it's reasonable to ticket the car in this photo -- parked too close to the crosswalk, hard on emergency vehicles, guilty as charged etc. But can somebody explain to me why emergency vehicles need a buffer of 20 feet around every street corner in the city? There is just a huge difference between 5 feet (or whatever the distance from this car to the corner) and 20 feet. To put it in perspective the largest Lincoln Navigator or Towncar is "only" 18.5 feet long.

The restriction should be something reasonable like 6 feet, 8 feet, maybe even 10 feet. If there are specific corners that are especially tight then claim 20 feet of space with no parking signs or a red/yellow curb. But it's over the top to set the law at 20 feet for every street corner in town when we all know that this is way more space than required and that it's enforced extremely selectively/randomly.

We got a ticket this fall for parking 13' from the corner of a tiny cul de sac and I can assure you all that the 13' gap left ample space for emergency vehicles to make it around the corner. We even had another Somerville police officer approach us to tell us we should argue it.

[grapefruiteater.livejournal.com]

Another angle that hasn't been mentioned here is visibility for other drivers. When cars are parked in or very near intersections, it's hard to see around them. This can be a problem for pedestrians, too--you're forced to step out into the road to see if cars are coming. The car in the photo is close enough to the intersection to present problems for pedestrians and drivers, and it would be worse if it faced the other direction on a one-way street--intersections with stop signs where there are cars parked right at the stop line are the worst.

[wonkywheels.livejournal.com]

It looks to me like you are less than 20 feet from the intersection, but they are very inconsistent about enforcing that law. I got ticketed for that once (actually twice because I didn't move my car for a couple of days) in a spot where I have seen other people parking ticket-free.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to find peace with the fact that I'd rather deal with somerville's crazy parking enforcement than my old home of NH's rediculous speeding enforcement (complete with endemic instances of way-too-low speed limit postings). At least the parking tickets don't affect your insurance payments.

[0bsessions.livejournal.com]

It can be pretty bad in sections of MA, too. I got ticketed on 495 heading by Chelmsford once for "impeding traffic" AND speeding on the same fucking ticket. I was in the left lane passing a car and a statie got up on me and did that tailgate you until you speed crap. When people do that to me, I wait for them to go around me and I hadn't noticed it was a cop.

I will say that MA courts are a lot more lenient and reasonable than NH. When I contested it, the magistrate threw it right the fuck out saying a ticket for 72 MPH in a 65 zone was a waste of the state's time to begin with. The same happened with every other ticket I've ever been written in MA (Including one where the cop actually agreed to drop it if I'd fixed my admittedly too loud muffler), but the one speeding ticket I ever got in NH (75 in a 65 on Route 93 near Hooksett), the judge actually upped my fine from $100 to $410 and suspended my license for a month when I tried to contest it before verbally dressing me down in front of my mother (Who had to drive me as my car wouldn't start that morning) and an entire courtroom full of other people waiting to contest their own tickets ("I hope your mother's proud of your apparent flagrant disregard for the law" were his exact words, note that I don't even have a criminal record).

Parking Passions

[tomchampion.livejournal.com]

Jeez.
Folks.
Even for my colleagues who actually WORK at Traffic and Parking, this level of rabbinical pilpul is pretty intense.

But since you're on the topic:

1. The 20 foot rule is a state law, not a local one. It applies even at "T" intersections where one road ends at another. There are supposedly no exceptions, but every city or town has spaces (sometimes even marked or metered)that are clearly in violation. People who look for perfect consistency here, or in Boston, Cambridge, Medford, Arlington, etc. -- will be disappointed.

2. T&P has indeed begun the process of systematically re-signing many intersections in the city, but it's going to take a while. Technically, however, the rule applies anywhere in the state, even if no markings or signs are present.

3. The city's traffic commission has approved the Mayor's proposal to designate a number of key intersections as fire lanes. which allows us to stripe the pavement (white only) and charge a higher fine for violations. these were locations were determined by a team from the Fire Dept. and T&P using actual turning radius data from actual fire engines, so the resulting lanes are, in some instances, even longer than 20 feet.. Here's the URL for the press release that describes the changes and lists the locations:
http://www.somervillema.gov/newsDetail.cfm?instance_id=1092

Please note that another state law prevents us from striping the pavement or the curb for ordinary 20-foot designations.

Finally, I want to mention that enforcement decisions will always, to some extent, vary from one Parking Control Officer to another. The PCO position is a gateway to other union jobs with the city, which is only one reason why turnover is fairly high. (Would you want the job?) That said, we have several more PCOs on the street now than we did last year (vacancies have been filled and new positions created), and the mayor and the Board of Aldermen have both requested in the wake of several recent fires that T&P enforce the 20 foot rule more consistently and aggressively. You or others may still get away with it, but you're taking a gamble.

Re: Parking Passions

[diatomacearth.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this here. We're probably all well aware that LJ isn't the best place to go for official rulings regarding traffic laws, but it's nice to have the presence, anyway.

Please note that another state law prevents us from striping the pavement or the curb for ordinary 20-foot designations.

Bummer.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

I agree that enforcement of this rule seems completely arbitrary. That said, by no measure are you 20 feet from that curb. You are guilty, you got caught, you have to pay the fine.

In an ideal world, every curb would be painted, but that's just not going to happen. I think the parking enforcement folks are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you're at, say, 15 feet, but you're not even there. I'd say you're much closer to 10 feet.

[robotindisguise.livejournal.com]

i live across the street from that spot (if that is indeed hawthorne st), and i've parked (and been ticketed) there before. i usually try to find another spot if possible...