Somerville Journal discontinues reader comments

[ron_newman]

The Somerville Journal's editor, Kat Powers, has decided to "shut down comments on our new stories" -- including the story where she announced this. I can't immediately tell whether she has removed or hidden comments on older news stories. ETA: She hasn't, for the most part. (I'm also not sure whether she meant "new stories" or "news stories".)

Since the Journal has provided no mechanism for reader feedback on this decision, let's discuss it here.

ETA: The Journal's blog still accepts reader comments, but does not (yet?) have any post on this subject and now has its own post on this subject.

Comments

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

"Until we have the ability to block repeated offenders" blah blah blah.

YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY ALREADY, KAT! IT'S CALLED 'MODERATION' AND 'IP BANNING'!

Jesus H. Christ on a bedpan, it's like the Keystone Kops had a newspaper over there.

[ellf.livejournal.com]

Well, there's one online news site I'll not read again.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Well, if I signed on and saw nothing but comments about how badly sourced and badly edited my material was, I'd probably disable reader comments too. Although I think I probably would try some QA first.

[gildersleeve.livejournal.com]

Given that they claim this policy is in effect until they figure out how to block the 'repeat offenders' who troll for arguments and make offensive comments, it seems like a responsible thing to do.

I hope they follow up and eventually restore the ability to comment when they have upped the security, and as it appears that is what they are planning to do, it should all be fine.

If the other newsrag in town was a little more stringent about such things, there would be more civil discourse and less unnecessary hatred flung around this city.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

If they made people actually register accounts, you might not see the same sort of problems with name-stealing, abuse, etc. Maybe. The caliber of the commentary on that site.. isn't exactly award-winning.

[tomchampion.livejournal.com]

As Ron knows better than anybody, unregistered, anonymous, unmoderated commenting can often be a vehicle for libel, slander and abuse of the most scurrilous kind.

At the Somerville Journal site, the moderated comment form for blogs requires a valid email address -- and the sender's IP address is recorded.

On the news pages, there used to be no such safeguards.

I think what turned the tide was a very serious charge(since removed) recently made against a city official. It was clearly designed as a smear tactic, and was leveled without attribution or evidence of any kind.

That sort of thing is potentially much more damaging to the fabric of any community than mere name-calling -- which anybody in the public sector learns to live with over time. But I gotta say that I won't miss gems like this:

"Hey Tom go **** Yourself. Get a real job you asshole."

Because anonymous remarks like that really brighten up your day.

P.S. Ron, if you search for older stories by keyword, you will find that the comments are still there.

[jspazzer.livejournal.com]

The Somerville Journal "editor" has no time to edit the stories, let alone monitor "mean-spirited" comments. Yet she has time to transcribe all the mean-spirited Speak Out calls every week. I guess it's just a matter of priorities.

[fefie.livejournal.com]

I got a laugh out of Kat Powers suggesting people call the SpeakOut line as substitution. I guess that is basically the caliber of the posts that prompted her action. SpeakOut sure shows the underbelly of Somerville, just like many of the comments on Somerville News. I can't do without either paper if I want to know what's going on here, but wow all that effort into spewing vitriol, hatred, and ignorance in both anonymous outlets still amazes me. I often wonder why the SJ hangs onto the SpeakOut section (though I know that a good chunk of the audience of SpeakOut only reads/responds to SpeakOut).

[tomchampion.livejournal.com]

I realize I should add that I'm just speculating about possible cause and affect. I hadn't spoken with Kat about any of this, and I didn't know about the Journal's policy change until I read about it here in the DSLJ.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

There's your answer: it moves papers.

[spatch]

Another lesson that Web2.0 for Web2.0's sake is a silly idea.

Letters to the Editor works just fine for me, thanks.

[chivesthebutler.livejournal.com]

this is because of the hundreds upon hundreds of angry comments received after their reporter pretended to be a tufts student, entered dorms, and taped the naked quad run. i'm sure of it.

[srakkt.livejournal.com]

Tom, in all seriousness, my suspicion is that the folks who seriously appreciate what you do far outnumber the detractors. I don't know if that helps with the inevitable sting, but there it is.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Oh, let's not even start up THAT wank again.

[ron_newman]

Seconded. Plus, I don't recall ever hearing that she pretended to be a student or went inside any dormitory buildings.

[rosiewoodboat.livejournal.com]

Cat Power is editing the SJ? Well, who knew!

[pearlythebunny.livejournal.com]

I think people at both the Journal and the News seem to forget sometimes that children read their online newspapers. It only makes sense. They publish stories about the schools, sports, and city events that attract children, so of course children are going to read the stories and comments. Recently, there was a story and video in the Journal about a school crossing guard. After the story, someone posted a nasty comment. I’m sure many kids read that comment because the story was about the crossing guard at their school.

Of course, the News is much worse in this regard than the journal. The comments online there are often sexually explicit, homophobic, racist, sexist, and quite offensive. Adults who read regularly probably realize that many of these comments are tongue-in-cheek and not as angry as they sound. But kids aren’t that sophisticated, and I’m sure they are reading and repeating and learning from the comments that are printed there. And now, since the editor is on the school committee, I imagine even more children are perusing the site.

If you print stuff that is relevant to kids in your paper, then I don’t think you should allow comments to be posted that are inappropriate for children to read.

I really don’t think this is the sort of name-calling that we want to model for our children, and I’m glad that the Journal, at least, is doing something about it.

[bombardiette.livejournal.com]

It appears that the Malden paper has begun to do the same thing. There was such a high level of trolling vs. any real feedback that I believe it drove a lot of people away.

I think a better option would simply be to require readers to register with one unique name (and I know that wickedlocal has a registration feature, but the papers don't require you be logged in to comment), log in each time and perhaps have it track IPs so that trolls could be immediately banned.

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

Yes. And since they already have that feature enabled for the blog comments, it would not be rocket science to enable it for all articles.

[bombardiette.livejournal.com]

I made note of that (twice) in the Malden article that is still in the Opinion section basically whining about how they never get any "real" feedback.

Of course they don't. It's a totally open forum which means it's a haven for trolls!

And if the ability is already there, then they're simply morons. I remember some of the first chat rooms on AOL and those were better moderated in 1995 than this shit is. [facepalm]

[alphacygni]

This is fine with me, for one. I was hoping there would develop a way to not show the comments under the articles unless you clicked something. When the article is short, I don't even have to scroll down to see them. I'd have to make a concerted effort to not accidentally read one or two.

And so many of them were so vile, so pointless, so hateful and stupid... I really don't need that when I'm just trying to keep up on my local events. If I feel like beating myself with a vinegar-covered porcupine, I should at least have to click something first to make sure I really meant it.

[elements.livejournal.com]

If it helps, as part of my (online communications) job I've been called everything from fascist to commie, told to contract deadly diseases and burn in hell, etc. It just comes with the territory :D. Sometimes those same folks tun up later to thank me... and if I like I can just figure the rest of them are too shy to bother :D. I'm sure the vast majority of Somervillians appreciate your work (and that it's, yaknow, actual work.)

I really hope to see the Journal allow persistent pseudonyms, since (as we've seen here on LJ) those are an excellent alternative to pure anonymity.

nasty comments

[enochs-fable.livejournal.com]

Adults who read regularly probably realize that many of these comments are tongue-in-cheek and not as angry as they sound.

You could have fooled me. The trolling is unbelievable. Registration would go a long way to nip that in the bud. When people are accountable (and bannable) it goes a long way towards keeping a civil peace.

[somertricky.livejournal.com]

Tom, my guess is the story about the crossing guard may have been the straw that broke the camel's back; comments for that story had been removed.

As for L'affaire Kotzuba, grey areas like that ought to be open for discussion, although obviously not dragged down to the level of discourse of a number of comments attending that article.

We'll see how the newspaper sites handle this; Norton had been banning the occasional poster at the News site, but apparently offered some sort of blanket amnesty to posters and opened the floodgates. I suspect both papers should offer some sort of ability to log in and comment; confirmable email address, but some ability to maintain (relative) anonymity, Somerville politics being what they are.

Ron - wasn't there another message board a few years ago that was done in by the same flaw? I remember banging heads with (then) Citizen Trane about women's soccer at Tufts.

[ron_newman]

I don't know who Kotzuba is, but I assume that Tom Champion was referring to the City Solicitor's recent conviction for drunk driving.

Sorry, I don't know anything about any earlier Somerville message board. I haven't participated in or read any Somerville-specific forums except for LiveJournal, the News blog, the Journal blog, and the Union Square Main Streets "ning" thing.

[somertricky.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, the comments regarding the city solicitor seem to have disappeared as well. IIRC, there was speculation as to how he's making his way to town from Watertown everyday, which may or may not be a topic worth looking into.

The discussion regarding the crossing guard was probably a little more appropriate; in the abstract, are there issues in one's past that ought to disqualify one from a position such as that? A good investigative reporter (this means you, Bagley) ought to ferret out the truth of the matter here.

tom champion

[drogers1.livejournal.com]

I wish you hadn't suggested that what turned the tide was the story regarding Kotzuba. It reeks of making yourself seem more important that you really are. And as far as I can tell, the story was never removed. It was merely moved down when other stories came online. Also, if I remember it was on the front page of Thursday's print edition. Nice try though.

David Rogers
Winter Hill

Re: tom champion

[tomchampion.livejournal.com]

Wow. I apologize.

In truth, I don't think that the Kotzuba story was the one that did it -- although it was the one that generated the comment thread in which I was called a variety of names, and from which I quoted.

I was, in fact, referring to the comments on the John Gannon story, in which one post - since taken down -- contained a really scurrilous and completely unsubstantiated charge.

As I freely acknowledged, I was merely speculating on possible factors in Kat's decision, about which I had no inside info. Comments to other stories may well have been more directly causal, and other posters here have suggested what some of those stories might be.

And, as I indicated in my original post, I knew full well that the comments to older posts like the Kotzuba story remained accessible.

As for me "reeking" of an exaggerated sense of my own importance: that's ALWAYS a fair charge -- not only against me but a whole lot of other people. After all, aren't we all the heroes of our own movies? (I've got theme music and everything.)

Re: nasty comments

[ron_newman]

And yet ... we haven't had to ban a single user here since I became one of the mods five months ago. I believe very few people were ever banned by the previous (post-neitherday) mod team either. Maybe the threat is enough to keep things from getting out of hand.

Re: nasty comments

[enochs-fable.livejournal.com]

Er, I was talking about the newspaper, rather than here (where people are generally registered, and not commenting anonymously.)

Re: nasty comments

[ron_newman]

I know that, but I was deliberately comparing our situation with theirs. We have the banhammer available but have rarely had to use it. What can the Journal (or the News) learn from us?

Kotzuba was the guy who

[winterhill.livejournal.com]

... got his driveway cleared out in the last storm by and outfit that was ALSO contracting to the city at the time. He is also director of traffic and parking, IIRC. Although Tom Champion strongly denied any wrong-doing, there was certainly a whiff of conflict of interest. However I suspect it was the crossing guard debacle that threw Kat over the edge.

[somertricky.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the crossing guard might have been the straw that broke the camel's back (although I thought the speculation fell into the valid area, see my post on the Journal blog), but there were apparently a lot of anti-immigrant posts on a thread about the first baby of 2008 born in Somerville. That's a nice touch.

Re: nasty comments

[enochs-fable.livejournal.com]

A lot!

[bombardiette.livejournal.com]

FWIW, the new news stories I looked at today had comments re-enabled. I don't know if it was a glitch or if there was so much negative feedback that they rescinded their new news policy.

Stories posted yesterday and earlier this morning still had commenting disabled.

Re: tom champion

[ece-drihten.livejournal.com]

Be nice to Tom Champion. He's just doing his job.

Re: tom champion

[ron_newman]

Hi, David. Are you the author of this blog? I posted a comment there several days ago but the moderator screened it out for some reason.

Music at the Growing Center

[candyleonard.livejournal.com]

Activities and events at the Somerville Community Growing Center on Vinal Ave and Summer Street are in full swing for the summer season, and Saturday, June 14 will bring live music for all ages from 7-9 p.m.

Somerville-based three piece band so+so will take the stage at 7, with their unique lo-fi, high-energy, lyrical pop sound. Following so+so will be local singer-songwriter Bill Trudell, featuring Captain Easy Chord. Trudell’s original power pop tunes have been described as “Hank Williams meets the Velvet Underground by way of the Beatles.”

According to Friends of the Community Growing Center member Candy Leonard, “The Growing Center is a little Eden in the middle of the most densely populated city in the northeast. We are hoping that events like this will make more people aware of this amazing space, and with that awareness will come more energy and community engagement.” Built by local residents and maintained by volunteers and the city of Somerville, the Center offers environmental education and cultural performances throughout the year.

The June 14th event is a fundraiser for the Growing Center, with a suggested donation of $5 and/or light, easy food to share. Raindate will be Sunday, June 15th from 2 – 4. A splendid time is guaranteed for all. For more information call Erin at 617-368-0861. thegrowingcenter.org.

Re: Music at the Growing Center

[ron_newman]

I don't understand why you posted this announcement as a comment here. Nobody will see it. Please make a new post for this event.