Who foots the bill for a leaking hot water heater?

[derekp.livejournal.com]

My mother in law has got herself in a bit of a bind. She rents a 1 bedroom apartment and is responsible for heat and hot water (both gas). Her gas bill for June and July was in excess of $300.00, which seems completely unreasonable. She notified the gas company of this and ultimately discovered that the hot water heater in the basement had been leaking.

She talked to the gas company about her normal uses of gas in those months and came up with the conservative estimate that the gas leak cost her $250. She notified her landlord that she intended to withhold this amount from her rent check as the malfunction of a hot water heater is the responsibility of the landlord. The landlord countered by offering to allow her to deduct $100. The $150 dollar difference represents about 200% of her disposable income for a month.

I told her that I would likely stand firm and withhold the full $250. The water heater itself was old (expected to fail) and not being proactive about it was negligent of the owner. The way I see it, it's only right for the landlord to foot the bill here. Am I being naive?

Comments

[justjess.livejournal.com]

In my experience, yes, it's the landlord's responsibility to cover repairs to the property. He/She should cover the bill. I'm no expert, though.

Good luck. That's a crappy situation to be in, and I hope your mother-in-law gets it sorted out to her advantage.

[frederic.livejournal.com]

http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Massachusetts/sanicode.html

410.190: Hot Water

The owner shall provide and maintain in good operating condition
the facilities capable of heating water. The owner shall also
supply the hot water for use at a temperature of not less than
110 degrees Fahrenheit (43 degrees C) and in a quantity and
pressure sufficient to satisfy the ordinary use of all plumbing
fixtures which normally need hot water for their proper use and
function, unless and to the extent the occupant is required to
provide fuel for the operation of the facilities under a written
letting agreement. The hot water shall not exceed 130 degrees
Fahrenheit (54 degrees C). Inspection of the hot water system
shall include an examination of the hot water system and its
actual performance. If possible, such examination shall occur at
the times and under such conditions as the occupant has
identified the system to be insufficient.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but it makes no mention of who is responsible for the usage bill when a malfunction occurs.

[autumnsshadow.livejournal.com]

"The owner shall provide and maintain in good operating condition the facilities capable of heating water."

That covers it. If it's malfunctioning, then it's not in good operating condition.

[csbermack.livejournal.com]

Repairs would definitely be the responsibility of the landlord. Once your mother identified the problem, then any excess charge from them not fixing it, I'd think, are the landlord's problem.

However, the landlord can't fix it until he knows it's broken - "it's old" is not sufficient; it's not the same as "it's broken". I think his compromise is fair, although it may not be entirely unreasonable to come back with 150 and settle on 125.

How much of her income it is is not relevant to the question, IMO.

If you can show that the landlord was negligent in the upkeep - hasn't looked at it in five years or something - then maybe I'd say something different.

If this apartment is otherwise good for her and she'd like to stay for more years, it's probably worth more than $150 to keep a good working relationship with the landlord.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

Her income isn't relevant to the argument with the landlord, sure. Relevant to the story to the community as to why $150 is a big deal? I think so.

But your general point is one I also thought of. Who's responsibility is it to notice failures in the equipment - especially when the equipment wasn't located "in unit" or even in site of her unit or any associated storage space. Should she be expected to inspect the hot water heater every day? every week? every month? I'm genuinely curious about this.

As for the relationship with the landlord, I disagree about it being worth $150 to keep a "a good working relationship" with the landlord. For that to be the case, you';d have to actually see or speak to the landlord. Or be able to count on her to actualy respond to issues in a timely fashion. She out of this place as soon as a spot in subsidized housing opens up (next 6 months, we're told) so she's not too concerned with that.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

Should she be expected to inspect the hot water heater every day? every week? every month?

Well, if i got a utility bill that was much higher than usual, I would be inspecting everything that uses that utility as quickly as possible.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

Got clarification on this. She DID call the landlord and the utility company when she got the bill for June. The problem was that this was already into the July cycle. They fixed it a day or two after, but the "damage" had already been done (spread across 2 billing cycles).

[inahandbasket]

It's a sucky situation for sure, but I'd have to agree with cshiley.
If the landlord fixed it promptly once notified of the issue (after TWO months of ridiculous bills, the first month should have been a dead giveaway that something was wrong) that's really where his responsibility ends IMHO. Offering to split the overage is a nice step on his part. The tenant is responsible for gas and electricity used, the landlord is responsible for the equipment.

In regards to Sapphira_Altair's comments below: "Seems like the landlord failed to provide proper maintenance, so is in violation of the state housing codes, so is responsible."
Stuff breaks even when well maintained, without a lot more info about the specifics about the situation I wouldn't accuse the landlord of neglect.

If I were in her situation I'd sit down with the landlord and discuss the financial constraints, and try to work out some mutually acceptable compromise.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the two months of high bills riled me up too. In her defense, she wouldn't know a hot water heater if one jumped out of the basement and slapped her in the face, really. I guess ignorance isn't much of a defense.

[sapphira-altair.livejournal.com]

Stuff breaks even when well maintained, without a lot more info about the specifics about the situation I wouldn't accuse the landlord of neglect.

Absolutely. I was working on the assumption that it wasn't regularly checked and/or maintained - that's really a hell of a leak to go unnoticed if the thing was being regularly checked.

It's a good idea to (politely) ask the landlord for service/maintenance records to show that it was being checked and/or maintained, and if it wasn't... then I'd say the landlord is absolutely responsible for the cost incurred by failing to do so.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there is ZERO regular maintenance going on anywhere at this place. And as I posted earlier, I got some clarification as to why it took 2 months to remedy, and it didn't. The leak was spread across two billing cycles. She told the gas company and landlord about the problem as soon as she opened the June bill, which was already a week or so into the July Cycle. They fixed it promptly when informed.

But no - they do no regular maintenance to the building or the grounds.

[sapphira-altair.livejournal.com]

Per the housing codes (State Sanitary Codes) available here (http://www.masslegalhelp.org/booklet-2-housing-code-checklist):

"The following equipment and facilities must be maintained so that they are properly installed and free of leaks, obstructions, and other defects:” Water-heating facilities, gas pipes, heating equipment, and water pipes."

Seems like the landlord failed to provide proper maintenance, so is in violation of the state housing codes, so is responsible. See more info at http://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

A useful resource: Massachusetts Tenants' Handbook (http://www.ci.somerville.ma.us/CoS_Content/documents/Tenant%20Helper%20-%206th%20Edition.pdf).

Relevant excerpt:

Utilities
A landlord may require a tenant to pay for gas and electricity if the utilities are separately metered for each apartment. For tenancies created or renewed on or after July 1, 1994, a landlord may require a tenant to pay for oil (for heat and/or hot water) only if the oil is provided through a separate oil tank serving only that apartment.

If you pay for these utilities you should make sure the bills are put in your name and sent to you directly.

Although you may pay the utility service directly, the landlord is responsible for the maintenance of the systems (making sure the burner, wiring system and hot water system are working properly). Improper utility systems are a violation of the State Sanitary Code.

NOTE: If your tenancy began on or after March 16, 2005, your landlord may require you to pay for water if the property meets the Massachusetts State Water Submetering Law. In tenant for water, a landlord must:

• Install a water submeter for your apartment;
• Install low flow fixtures;
• Have a signed rental agreement that spells out who pays water charges;
• File proper certification of compliance with the Somerville Board of Health; and
• Comply with other rules

If you moved into your apartment before March 16, 2005, you should not be charged for water. For more information on the law and its requirements, call the Housing Division at 617-625-6600, or check www.masslegalhelp.org.

See also the following: http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/submeter.html

When Can a Tenant Be Billed Directly for Water under the New Water Law?, Mass. Legal Services. "Under the new water law, landlords may now bill tenants separately for water if all of the following requirements are met:
Landlord has installed submeters that measure actual water used in your apartment; Landlord has installed low-flow fixtures; Your tenancy started on or after March 16, 2005; Previous tenant was not forced out; There is a written rental agreement that spells out water bill arrangements; and Landlord has filed proper certification." 25-page booklet includes: Who Pays for Water, How Submetering Works, Paying the Water Bill, Plumbing Problems, and More About the Law.

When did your MiL move into this apartment? If she's been living there for more than a few years, the landlord could be illegally charging her for payment of water utilities. I strongly suggest she call the number for the Housing Division.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

Thanks. This helps.

[inahandbasket]

This isn't about a water bill, it's a gas bill. Very different.
The tenant isn't paying for water, they're paying to heat it, which is how it should be legally.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

*reareads* Yup, you're right. Serves me right for trying to multitask. :-} The main point is that it's the landlord's responsibility to maintain facilities for hot water, and this is spelled out in multiple resources on the web.

As an aside, I was surprised to see that the law had changed such that a landlord can now make tenants responsible for paying for water. I've been living in the same place since 1999, so it's never come up and doesn't apply to me anyway; I wonder how many other people also don't know about this change.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

Oh - the last link there seems to relate to the water bill. We're talking about the gas bill as it relates to hot water.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Yeah, sorry about that. I was doing like 3 things at once and focused on the "water" part. The main point is that the landlord is responsible for maintaining the heater.

[perich.livejournal.com]

Always, always, always call the Massachusetts Tenants Network (http://www.masstenants.net/) with these sort of questions.

[derekp.livejournal.com]

THank you! Will do. Didn't know it was an option.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

The way I see it, it's only right for the landlord to foot the bill here. Am I being naive?

Yes. I know a lot of tenants, and a lot of landlords, and I don't know any who inspect their properties on a monthly basis, nor anyone who has replaced a hot water heater that's working fine just because it's old.

I believe the landlord is legally responsible for fixing the leak as soon as notified about it, and helping her out with the charges between that notification and when it was actually fixed.

I think she should accept the $100 deduction as a generosity from the landlord.

You could recommend that she threaten to sue the landlord in small claims court (and then do so if he doesn't let her deduct the extra), or that she just withhold the rent money anyway, since all he can do is start to evict her. But from your story it sounds like the landlord is being reasonable, so I personally don't think it's appropriate.

Also -- was it a gas leak or a hot water leak?

[blondeamazon.livejournal.com]

I sympathize with her financial situation, but I agree with others in their comments. The landlord doesn't know something is broken if he isn't told. It is the tenant's responsibility to pay for utilities, so I think he is being fair to offer $100 allowance for the extra she had to pay over two months towards gas to heat the water. She could try to sit down with him to explain the financial burden the extra $150 is to her, and I wish her luck, but he is not legally at fault, IMO, due to not knowing about the default. Unless she can proove that he was negligent in replacing a faulty water heater (like if there was duct tape wrapped around some part that should ahve been replaced). Now, if he does not take care of it promptly now that he knows about it, whole different ball game. And maybe I am too nice or a chump, but I wouldn't be a dick about it, regardless of whether or not I was planning on moving and didn't care about keeping a "good working relationship" with the landlord. Besides, if she is nice, she stands a better chance of getting him to cover more of the overage.
All this aside as my opinion, I would be interested to find out what you learned as legally correct with your phone call to the Mass Tenants Network. Luck to her!

[pjmorgan.livejournal.com]

Hot water heaters typically fail all at once, not slowly. If you don't have a finished basement, I believe in waiting till they fail, then replacing then. A slow deterioration usually doesn't happen so replacement in anticipation of deteriorating performance doesn't usually make sense.

Also antagonstic atitudes typically destroy the landlord tenant relationship, not that you care, but you might later.

[ronhaha108.livejournal.com]

I own a 2 family and just ran into this situation, both hot water and heat were on an old (very old, 1918ish) oil boiler system. The hot water was tankless and basically the boiler would always come on to have hot water available, regardless of the heat thermostat. When oil was cheap, this didn't matter, go through like a tank during the summer. But in April my tenant complained that she just filled the tank and that it was down to 3/4 of a tank in 1 month. When I questioned the amount of oil used she said it was 200 gallons, though it's a 275 gallon tank, plus the gauge on the tank is old and I wouldn't call it reliable. But, she is a good tenant and I didn't want to screw her and refunded her around $400.

Since then I've put in gas hot water tanks for both her and my apartment, around $1620 / tank (which included removing the old water heater attached to the boiler and re-routing pipes / tying into the chimney, etc). I'm pretty sure I've paid her back more than what she used (the $400), but in the long run I couldn't prove that there wasn't something wrong with the system and how much she's used, so I just let it slide.

As a landlord, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the $250 back. I do believe at tax time, he can write off some of that $ anyway (that's what I'm going to do!)

Good luck!
Ron

[masswich.livejournal.com]

This is a tough one. I don't think the landlord did anything wrong since s/he only has to generally maintain a working water heater. They do fail at funny times. And they don't generally need much, if any, maintenance on an annual basis so there's no reason to suspect s/he knew there was anything wrong with the water heater. I check my tenants' water heaters when I have a chance but can't say its more than once every 3 months or less.

On the other hand, its probably just being a good landlord to help pay for some of the additional cost, which is what s/he is doing.

It probably not too much to ask - not demand - the landlord pay the full amount - if the rent is market-level. If the rent is a good deal I'd recommend accepting the current offer or asking for $150 or so.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

Fairness wise, I'd see it this way:

If she received the first exceptionally high gas bill and immediately notified the landlord and nothing came of it, and then she received a second one, then I would argue that the landlord should be liable for the entirety of the second bill minus the normal cost and PART (e.g. half) of what's left after subtracting the normal cost from the *first* bill.

If, however, she received two such bills before saying anything, then I think the landlord's offer is pretty reasonable. After all, he's probably already footing an oversized water bill for this particular mishap.

[balsamicdragon.livejournal.com]

I think many of those who posted have attempted to assign blame, but what really should be assigned is risk. Assuming that both parties acted reasonably, who bears the risk of the water heater unexpectedly leaking?

The person to bear the risk should be a) the person with the most control over the water heater, and b) the person who is able to best insure against that risk, either through homeowner's insurance or through regular inspection. In both cases, that person is the landlord. The $250 loss is regretable, but it is the landlord who should bear that risk, not the tenant.

[duffless2323.livejournal.com]

I have to disagree with most of the comments. The landlord seemed reasonable in getting it fixed, yes. However, just because he was reasonable doesn't mean he's not responsible for the equipment in his property. Your mother pays rent each month, and he makes his profit. As a landlord, he needs to expect costs associated with renting out his space. He should not be passing these costs on to your mother. The fact that it broke is unfortunate. He's not billing her for a new water heater, then he also shouldn't be billing her for the spilled gas. Using prior bills or an estimate from Nstar is reasonable to figure out how much she should pay, the rest he should cover. Your mother should talk to the town inspector too and see if they have advice. The landlord's willingness to negotiate with her shows that he feels he's responsible for part of the bill. I firmly believe he's pushing your mother around because he thinks he can. I suggest your mother stand firm, and you talk to the landlord yourself. He'll likely foot the whole bill rather than lose a good renter. I'd stess the fact that it was a dangerous situation and that you are glad she is alive and that she acted promptly to ensure his building not be damaged, and that its unfair for her to be charged for equipment in disrepair. Without a doubt he's responsible.

[leko.livejournal.com]

He's not billing her for the gas, the gas company is. I'm sure the lease says she's responsible for the gas utility. I don't think the landlord offering to pay for some of the expensive bill can at all be characterized as "pushing (her mother) around". Also, how was this a dangerous situation? Did you even read the original post?

[duffless2323.livejournal.com]

It was a dangerous situation because if the hot water heater is in disrepair to that state, there is a potential for a gas leak.

I don't appreciate you accusing me of not reading the post. Aren't people allowed to have a different perspective on this situation?

I DO think the landlord trying to haggling with her over what portion he's willing to pay is pushing her around. She did everything she was responsible for as a renter and should not be punished because HIS hot water heater malfunctioned. I don't think characterizing him as nice guy becuase he's willing to pay for "part of it" is fair, I see him as trying to get extra money out of this poster's mother.

The extra bill is directly related to HIS hot water heater being in ill repair. This is HIS problem, and should not in any way be pushed on this person's mother.

[duffless2323.livejournal.com]

Wait a second, you just made me assume that there wasn't a gas leak, I re read the post and there was a gas leak. So how is that NOT dangerous?

[leko.livejournal.com]

You're right. I apologize. It was dangerous and a gas leak apparently.

[duffless2323.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the apology, I really appreciate that.

On the other issue, we will just have to agree to disagree. I still feel strongly that the direct correlation between the gas leak and the bill makes the landlord responsible.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

I read that the water heater was leaking, which meant she was paying to heat hot water that was spilling on the floor, no?

[leko.livejournal.com]

So if the hot water heater hadn't been leaking, and was just really crappy and inefficient, is the landlord somehow responsible for the gas bill then? I just don't see getting around the fact that the landlord is only obligated to provide hot water (which he was) and to fix problems he's notified of (which he did). The tenant still signed a lease saying they were responsible for the gas utility, and as far as the gas company is concerned, it's in the tenants name, and the tenant is the person who the gas company will come after, not the landlord.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I'm going to go with the minority here and say try to stand firm. As has been pointed out, it's about responsibility. Your mother did everything she could have been expected to do.

She might also want to write a letter that includes some of the excellent points made here, such as by the commenter right above me.

[tt02144.livejournal.com]

It seems like many people here automatically jump to the conclusion that the landlord is responsible/negligent. There are many landlords (like myself) who charge much less than market rate and are just getting by. The rent helps me pay my mortgage, and I pay a large chunk of it myself. As was stated by several, there is no way of knowing that a hot water heater is about to 'go'. One morning you get up and there is no hot water. There are no warning signs. The landlord is buying a new water heater and splitting the extra amount on the bill. This seems more than fair. Don't assume that the landlord is a faceless millionaire laughing all the way to the bank and putting his tenants in the poorhouse! I think it's unfortunate, but you can't always place the blame/responsibility on someone else.

[duffless2323.livejournal.com]

I don't see how anyone else could be held responsible unless the renter destroyed the hot water heater somehow.

Yes it sucks to be a landlord, and yes not all landlords are making lots of money, some are just getting buy, but with any homeownership the person who owns the home is responsible for the furnace, heater, etc. It's a cost of doing business, and it's a cost of owning property. One of the many reasons people rent is to not be responsible for these types of things.

[somertricky.livejournal.com]

I'm a landlord too, and I totally agree that the landlord is responsible for this.

Water heater's don't usually give any warning when they go - the only notice the two I've had to replace gave was water leaking on the floor; this was after we (once) and the tenants (the other time) say, hey, there's no hot water.

You eat the cost, write it off. You're a landlord, suck it up.

[elements.livejournal.com]

Here is a post of the community's collected housing rights links: http://community.livejournal.com/davis_square/961648.html

[zmgmeister.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's a tough one.

On first reading I thought it was about a water heater leaking _water_ and there was a dispute over water damage to the basement.

I'd be a lot more concerned that there was a gas leak at all, never mind who pays for the wasted gas. That's definitely not normal and AFAIK not something that water heaters are regularly replaced for.

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[alafdalorg.livejournal.com]

http://alafdal.org/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%83%d8%a9-%d9%83%d8%b4%d9%81-%d8%aa%d8%b3%d8%b1%d8%a8%d8%a7%d8%aa-%d8%a7%d9%84%d9%85%d9%8a%d8%a7%d9%87-%d8%a8%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%a7%d8%b6/
I had some issues with this post scuba diving/swimming. I just made sure to empty my cup as soon as I could after I got out of the water. I never had any issues while in the ocean/just after I get out of the water with leaking.

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[nklafsh.livejournal.com]

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[microsystemseo.livejournal.com]

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[aksawy4.livejournal.com]

Underground water leaks result in more problems than you might think. Water leak detection services exist to not only save you money, but to save one of our world's most valuable resources - fresh water. The following are results of not utilizing a professional for underground leak detection when you think you have a problem.

• High Water Bill- It's an undeniable fact that allowing an underground water leak to go undetected will drive your water bill through the roof. If you have a leak and you fail to utilize underground leak detection services, you will cost yourself thousands of dollars over the course of a single year. If you want to give away your hard earned money, why not hand it over to a worthwhile charity? Don't give it to the bill collectors in exchange for wasted water.
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