Goodwill

[anomie666.livejournal.com]

So this evening walking by the goodwill store, there was at least 3 people picking through the donated items left outside to steal whatever they wanted. One guy even told his girlfriend/ wife to pull the car around because they had too much stuff to carry. Its not the first time that I have seen people taking things and I'm sure it happens every night.

This really annoys me because its not only stealing, but it is stealing from a charity. To me, it is analogous to palming money from the collection plate at Church. I know people aren't supposed to leave donated items outside, but that shouldn't give someone license to take things that don't belong to them.

So a couple of questions.

1) Is this illegal? It is outside and I guess it would be considered abandoned property. I don't know if what they are doing would be considered a crime.

2) Is there anything that can be done to stop this?

Comments

[lbmango.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it's legal or not, although it's taking items out of Goodwill's carts which might be relevant...

As to how to stop it, I'd say that if Goodwill took it's carts in when it closed, (or didn't have someone watching the carts) then people wouldn't donate when no one was around, so there wouldn't be stuff to take...

When I was donating stuff from the yard sale, the guy had to yell at a couple of women who were looking through the one of the carts...

I agree that it's bad... especially since they could just buy it from the goodwill inside for really cheap. Not as cheap as for free, but still.

[anomie666.livejournal.com]

These weren't in carts, they were left right in the front of the door (in bags or just laying by the entrance).

I think people want to donate things, realize the store has closed, and instead of coming back when it is open they just leave it by the front door. It is meant for the charity, but it is out in the open.

[upsidown.livejournal.com]

Really, in order to stop it, people need to stop leaving stuff outside during off hours. From my experience working at a food pantry that also took clothing donations, that's unlikely to happen. The people who mostly leave stuff outside usually care the least about what they're donating. I've seen people drop stuff off in paper bags when it's raining, not caring at all that everything will get ruined, just grateful for the opportunity to get rid of it. Right now, we're approaching the biggest moving day of the year, so there's probably even more stuff than usual, from people who care more about getting rid of things than they do giving it to charity.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

This pretty much happens at the beginning of every September, no matter what one does about it.

Think of it this way -- the people who are dropping their stuff off their aren't going to bring it to goodwill during the day -- so it's leaving it there or putting it out for the trash. At least this way some of the items are getting to goodwill.

I agree that it stinks, I just think that the dozen or so nights a year it happens aren't something to worry about.

The only solution I could see would be for goodwill to park a donation truck outside with a deposit door for these busy times. I'm not sure they have those, and not sure how the parking would work out.

[lonelyholiday.livejournal.com]

I agree that it stinks, I just think that the dozen or so nights a year it happens aren't something to worry about.

Wait, do you mean that people dump their stuff a dozen or so nights a year, or just that other people steal it a dozen nights a year? Because if you mean the former, it's definitely much more often than that. I think I see at least a bag/box or two outside the door almost any evening I walk by.

But I agree on your other point, that those who leave "donations" outside a closed store care more about dumping their junk than they do about donations. So yes, at least some of their dumped junk is going to a good cause, even if other stuff is taken.

[sonofabish.livejournal.com]

Well, folks left the stuff outside of Goodwill to go to charity. Folks who are picking through the stuff are just cutting out the middleman.

[anomie666.livejournal.com]

People who leave stuff intended their items to be sold, so that money could fund the programs that the charity runs.

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

No, actually. The Goodwill ppl specifically say DON'T leave crap outside the shop. So, when shitheads leave their trash out they are the ones doing something basically illegal (dumping trash). So, the people taking that stuff are just removing trash.

[anomie666.livejournal.com]

Its not dumping trash if they are intending it to go to goodwill. You can dump trash anywhere. I'm more pissed off at the people stealing shit than I am at the people who donate items improperly.

[irinarasp.livejournal.com]

Yep, as a bunch of folks already said, leaving stuff outside the Goodwill (or other donation-based organization) door is littering.
Littering is punishable by fines.

[tfarrell.livejournal.com]

And the Supreme Court says that trash may be taken by anyone.

[anotherjen.livejournal.com]

I happened to have a brief chat about that with one of the guys who works at that Goodwill. He knows people take the stuff, but he says he can't really blame them, and shrugs it off. So in other words, nope, they're not supposed to do it, but nope, it's not a big heinous problem.

[ron_newman]

I like the idea of a place where people can just leave stuff and other people can just take it. Cambridge used to have "Free Boxes" scattered around the city for this purpose. Wellesley has the town dump. There just needs to be a better place for it than the front of Goodwill.

[ayelle.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I think the problem is more with people who are dumping and running than with the scavengers. Either way, the biggest problem is not really the "theft," but the mess that's left for the undoubtedly overworked Goodwill workers to clean up. After all, as far as I understand it, main reason stuff at Goodwill isn't free is that it takes valuable man-hours of sorting, cataloging, handling etc (as well as overhead costs) in order to transform the chaos of donated items into something resembling an organized store where you can find what you're looking for. So if people take something before a Goodwill employee or volunteer has spent any time sorting it, I don't really see that as cheating Goodwill -- just cutting out the middleman, as someone else here said -- which is probably why it doesn't concern the Goodwill employees all that much. I'm sure some people who scavenge are actually the same needy folks Goodwill exists to help; and even if they aren't, it's not like Goodwill has some kind of policy that prevents non-needy people from shopping at their stores. Obviously the people who dump the stuff are not concerned about helping out the charity, so I'm not concerned about their "good intentions." BUT -- anyone is responsible for a creating or contributing to a big mess for Goodwill to clean up every morning is wasting everyone's time (and money, insofar as time is money). That's what's unfair to the charity and, by extension, the people the charity exists to benefit.

[bd2k.livejournal.com]

Putting aside the question of whether the stuff should be out there, I had a conversation with a Somerville cop a few years back on the topic of "what counts as stealing?" in situations like this. He told me that things out on the curb are fair game for anyone, but something taken off your property is stolen.

So according to this logic, the stuff taken out of the entrance might in fact be stolen, regardless of whether it's a bad idea to have left it there.

In practical terms, it's more of a question of "can you get a cop to care and/or respond before anyone taking the stuff is long gone?". I had asked in the context of a guy going through my apartment's dumpster in broad daylight, methodically pulling out bills, receipts, and credit card statements. The cop did care, but showed up long, long after I had chased the dude off.

[purpless77.livejournal.com]

It's not so much whether or not it is right to leave stuff in front of Goodwill, but how could someone be so selfish. If I see things in front of Goodwill whether it's permitted to be left there or not, I wouldn't feel good looking through the stuff let alone taking any of it. It reminds me of when the whole "vintage clothing" fad came about. I thought it was horrible that so many people were condoning going out shopping at places like Goodwill and The Salvation Army when that stuff is meant to help those less fortunate. How can these people not feel horrible how about themselves.
Some people just have no tact, much less respect.

[ron_newman]

I get what you're saying except for the last part. Are you saying people who want old clothes should not shop at Goodwill and Salvation Army? Why not?

[srakkt.livejournal.com]

From a purely intellectual standpoint, it's a tough distinction to make, because the difference betwen "garbage on the sidewalk" and "property of Goodwill" is made entirely based upon the location of the actual items. In the former case, "garbage on the sidewalk", it's entirely legal to take. There was a supreme court case (I'll find the citation sometime, but not now, apparently) where the plaintiff was challenging law enforcement's ability to take garbage (for investigation) without a warrant; the idea was to render the damning evidence inadmissible. The courts upheld the idea that garbage on the curb (public property rather than private) is left there without a reasonable expectation of protection, unlike say, something inside your car, or locked to a post.

So the question of legality probably falls entirely upon where that property line ends.

[redcolumbine.livejournal.com]

People who drop stuff in front of Goodwill kinda-sorta intend it to go to Goodwill, but not enough to get it there during open hours (perhaps because they have to work). I think they mostly intend to keep it out of landfill or have it not be wasted, so if people scarf it up to sell themselves, it certainly beats having it ruined by weather or dogs. A lot of actual donation-bin theft items end up in fleamarkets or on eBay - that's what some people consider their job.

So, yeah, it sucks, but if illegal it's not likely to be enforced, and I suspect the people dumping stuff after hours aren't entirely unaware of the possibility.

[turil.livejournal.com]

I actually intend stuff left outside to go to whomever wants it, with Goodwill getting the leftovers. If I wanted to give it only to Goodwill, I'd bring it into the store. I'd rather give stuff away for free, but I'm ok with Goodwill getting the stuff if no one else wants it.

[hrafn.livejournal.com]

Install landmines in the sidewalk. You could set them up to only activate during certain hours, and then put up massive warning signs so people know to avoid the area.

[anomie666.livejournal.com]

You should be mayor!

[turil.livejournal.com]

When I put stuff outside I don't want anymore I'm putting it there because I want passers by to take it, and whatever is leftover, Goodwill can have...

I encourage this sort of thing, as it's good for everyone.

[toastygw.livejournal.com]

If that's the case why don't you just put it out in front of your place and post a "curb alert" on craigslist - then you can deal with the mess once people have taken whatever they want and left the rest. You can then take the rest to goodwill.

Not that much more work for you - probably less if everything is taken.

[dylanesque29.livejournal.com]

If you drop something at Goodwill or the Salvation Army after hours, there's a very good chance that somebody WILL be classless enough to take it. That should be common sense to anybody who's ever driven past one after dark.

[takeapicaresque.livejournal.com]

sometimes people who take clothing that's left on a curb actually *need* it. classless? or just not your class?

[turil.livejournal.com]

There used to be a Planet Aid donation "dumpster" in the Dominos/WingIt parking lot just down Elm a block from the Goodwill. But it's not there anymore.

[makoshark.livejournal.com]

I think many folks dropping stuff off are mostly trying to get rid of stuff without throwing it away than with ensuring that people didn't get access to it without going through Goodwill.

When I've dropped stuff off at Goodwill after hours, I don't assume that Goodwill will get it. Maybe I'm just more resigned to the situation but I've never imagined that anything else would be a reasonable assumption.

[anomie666.livejournal.com]

Why not then just leave a "free to take" sign up and leave it on your curb? It would be a lot less mess for goodwill to have to deal.

I think most people leaving things at goodwill at least have the hope that their items will help support the mission of goodwill.

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

All those clothes create a nice comfortable bed for people to sleep on at night

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

The people at Goodwill don't worry about it; they'd prefer not to have to deal with the mess, &c., which is why they are very explicit with the 'DON'T LEAVE STUFF OUTSIDE WHEN WE'RE NOT OPEN' signs which many people ignore.

When I was working for a local newspaper (in another state) back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I was following up on a similar story regarding a local Salvation Army store.

The regional Salvation Army manager I spoke with said something like, "Well, the people who took the stuff felt that they needed it, and the people who left the stuff felt that they didn't need it. Since I wasn't there at the time, and neither were any of our staff, I don't see how we're part of the exchange."

[makoshark.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think that's basically the problem expressed in the OP. Goodwill is a charity that turns its proceeds into jobs, rehabilitation, and other social good, so there is a cost.

[tt02144.livejournal.com]

The Salvation Army Store on Broadway has tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to deal with this problem for years now. There is more space there, and it's a less well-travelled area, so it's been more of a problem. They worked very closely with law enforcement on solutions. They eventually had to lock their parking lot at night to prevent people from dumping stuff on their loading dock. They eventually placed a large collection box at the edge of their property. Well, believe it or not, people still managed to get things out of this box. In fact, people actually put their KIDS inside the box to hand out items which they couldn't reach!! Unfortunately, I think this problem is unsolvable. And as to whether or not people have a right to take the stuff....if they're truly in need, I don't see a problem, as long as they don't leave a mess (which they usually do). However, I wouldn't be surprised that many of these people are amassing merchandise to sell at one of those large flea markets you see on weekends, or at a yard sale at their own home.