[identity profile] rikchik.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] davis_square
I apologize for frightening you.

When you walked into the crosswalk in front of me, I thought that you would keep going into my lane, so I prepared to go behind you. Instead, you stopped to let me pass, and it seemed like I was aiming for you. You yelled at me, which was only reasonable.

What I should have done is to stop or slow down until it was clear whether you would be in my lane, and then either go in front of you or stop to let you cross. My bad, and again, I'm sorry.

Date: 2009-06-04 02:15 pm (UTC)
ext_174465: (Default)
From: [identity profile] perspicuity.livejournal.com
"don't know" is also short hand for "they know, but: they don't care and break/bend the law, actually have no idea, etc..."

it's bad enough as well for the motorcycles out there. all these mixed vehicles need to get along better.

most of it, imho, is a sense of entitlement. "i gotta get where i wanna go, outta my way"...

be safe!

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Date: 2009-06-04 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
Bicycling in Boston is unique, though, in that you will often (as in, regularly multiple times on the same trip) find yourself at a red light where there is obviously no traffic at ALL on the intersecting road. Knowing that you can run that light with impunity makes it a difficult temptation to avoid, and as someone who does it all the time, it's hard to see how it actually hurts anyone provided you respect the fact that oncoming motorists do have the right of way (and treat them accordingly--not making them slow down or swerve to avoid you, etc.).

Date: 2009-06-04 02:22 pm (UTC)
ext_174465: (Default)
From: [identity profile] perspicuity.livejournal.com
i see the same thing with cars. especially the police ;) red light? whatever.

it's worse on right turns. seems a lot of people aren't even doing California turns, they just blow right through, which leads to antics.

the left hand turners are the most special though.

#

Date: 2009-06-04 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
I can safely say that in the greater Boston area, I have *only* ever seen cops do that.

And there's never an excuse for not looking. But it's important to keep in mind when talking about the relative importance of car drivers and bicyclists obeying things like red light laws that the consequences of disobedience are *not* the same, legal consequences aside. If a car hits another car, there is going to be significant property damage involved and probably a significant risk to life and limb. Cars go a lot faster than bikes and they weigh two tons. If a car and a bicycle collide, the injuries are going to be ENTIRELY on the side of the bicyclist. It is not very likely that a bicycle will exactly T-bone another bicyclist because the size of the road makes panoramic visibility at that speed very good and there is a lot of room to maneuver. But even if they do collide, they are both likely to fare a lot better than if either of them had collided with a car instead.
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Date: 2009-06-04 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
BTW, I'm not counting drivers who sneak through right after the light has changed thinking they can beat the red light but missing by a retardedly wide margin, I'm talking about people driving through as if there is no light at all.

Of course Allston is a completely different story than Cambridge and Somerville. People there are completely lawless in my experience. And they hate bicyclists.
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Date: 2009-06-04 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
Actually I'd say my experience goes like this: Cantabridgians are friendlier but they aren't nearly as good at driving, partially at least because so many of the traffic rules in Cambridge "do the thinking for them." Whereas Bostonians are far more aggressive and more likely to honk just because they're mad at you (cab drivers mostly), but they know the boundaries of their cars a lot better.

I'd have to disagree with you about he narrow streets though. There is a lot more "design" and width on the roads in Cambridge than in Boston. Boston is pretty much a traffic free-for-all and the lines, where they do exist, are nonsensical. I think the effect Cambridge's lines have on drivers and bicyclists though is to lull them into a false sense of security. It makes people more likely to want to bike, but also more likely to get hurt doing it.

Not to mention the fact that Cantabrigians apparently don't know how to take a right turn and remain outside the bike lane.

To ALL bicyclists on this thread: Never trust this. If you approach an intersection with a right turn lane with the bike lane to the RIGHT of it, DO NOT get into that bike lane unless you are turning right. Get in the middle of the road. This is one of those situations where more regulation makes people totally ignore their surroundings. Drivers with a fully painted right turn lane and a green arrow to go along with it do not look AT ALL.
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Date: 2009-06-04 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
Heh, my advise if you *are* turning right is to play the situation by ear and be highly attentive to what the drivers in the right turn late are doing and how much room you have to maneuver. Also do try to obey the "pass on the left" rule and only go to the left of them if you think you are going to get through the intersection faster than them. If you're planning on taking the right turn from the right of the cars, then it can go one of two ways: If the cars are not moving at all (law abiding driver at the front of the line with a No Turn On Red sign) then just make sure to get in a place where they can easily see you before you stop to watch for oncoming traffic. If the cars ARE moving, then probably it's a good idea to stop or at least slow down and make it clear to drivers that you are letting them go in front of and/or around you, and go slowly enough that you are not coming up behind anyone's back-right corner such that they will cut you off and squish you into the inevitable parked car.

One thing you generally can count on, at least, is that drivers are deathly afraid of bicyclists. Once you've made them aware of your location, even the very aggressive ones will at least *try* to avoid running you over, even if they honk and swear while they're doing it. The trick is getting them to notice you in the first place and figuring out how they're going to react when they do.
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Date: 2009-06-04 05:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
I should have been more specific: It's not that they don't want to hurt you, they just don't want to do it with their car for insurance reasons, etc. I think there's something about driving that gives people (including myself, when in a car) a perverse sense that the world outside their car is mainly just an impediment to them reaching their destination.

Consider this: Coming to a complete stop and then continuing onwards requires less physical and mental effort in a car than virtually any other kind of vehicle (including walking). And yet it is the drivers who seem to feel the most offended by being made to do this. People become so rushed in their cars that virtually anything that impedes their path becomes worthy of terrible rage, even if it may only cause them to reach their ultimate destination a fraction of a second later.

Maybe what it's that driving makes people feel competitive. I can't even tell you how many times I've passed drivers in traffic on my bike only to have them deliberately speed up just to pass me again. Like, what? Are you worried I might think that my bike is faster than your car? Of course, it is, at least in the city.

Call me an optimist, but I think the world would be a much friendlier place of more people stopped driving everywhere.

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From: [identity profile] hrafn.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-06-04 07:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2009-06-04 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anyee.livejournal.com
Oh, cagers? That line alone made you lose all credibility. I bet you're one of those trendy critical mass people who are so proud of themselves when they block the MBTA from transporting people via bus. YEAH STICK IT TO THE MAN.

It's like a queer person calling any heterosexual a breeder.

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From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_mattt/ - Date: 2009-06-05 05:34 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-06-04 04:54 pm (UTC)
ext_174465: (Default)
From: [identity profile] perspicuity.livejournal.com
The trick is getting them to notice you in the first place and figuring out how they're going to react when they do

i hear tell that this works : stick old rare earth magnets from harddrives and other sourches to your handle bars.

when in need, snag a magnet and hurl it at the offending thing. generally, it'll clank quite hard onto steel, and well, now they've noticed you ;)

then again, then do make incredibly loud horns - like if i road in boston, i'd have a 100+ dB 12V air horn :) they cost $40ish, less large battery. heh. the 18 wheeler sound on a 2 wheeler. they work goodly on motorcycles too.

#

Date: 2009-06-04 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
I was thinking about getting one of them train horns actually. They're louder. :-)

Of course I think I'd need to carry around an air compressor for it to work but, eh, it's worth it.

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Date: 2009-06-04 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haptotrope.livejournal.com
Cantabridgians are friendlier but they aren't nearly as good at driving, partially at least because so many of the traffic rules in Cambridge "do the thinking for them."

I put forth the Bohmte Plan (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18217318) where if everyone fends for your damned self, you figure out how to get where you are going, while consistently remaining alert.

its a whole case for serious deregulation... like on the autobahn, you will never, ever, ever, catch someone putting on make up, or reading the paper while driving. And I think a lot of the traffic laws designed to protect the people make them complacent, and give them wholisic excuses to not pay attention, because the law does not hold them accountable for their actions.

Date: 2009-06-04 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
I put forth the Bohmte Plan where if everyone fends for your damned self, you figure out how to get where you are going, while consistently remaining alert.

Seconded whole heartedly. The safest intersection is one that isn't controlled at all since everyone is forced to drive through it at uber-paranoid pace.

It sounds like you've been reading Traffic (http://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Drive-What-About-Vintage/dp/0307277194/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244149507&sr=8-3) and if you haven't you probably should. ;-)

Date: 2009-06-04 09:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haptotrope.livejournal.com
Though I hate using the word paranoia -- once you "get the system" it just is... you don't fear it, you are just always looking.

I've never read "traffic" but Thanks for the link... I just had a racecar driver for a father, so I have lots of opinions about speed, driving, danger, and banana bread without nuts.

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Date: 2009-06-05 05:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_mattt/
Usually the bike lane (and automobile lanes) are hashed out at major intersections to show that they overlap at that point. I can think of a couple of instances in Cambridge.

The right turn is the most frightening when there is a bike lane, as the cyclist fits very neatly in an automobile's blind spot. Moreover, checking the blind spot (over my right shoulder) and checking the clearance for the turn (straight and to the right) mean I can't be looking in both places at the same time.

Whether there is a cyclist I have overtaken or not (because cyclists can come out of nowhere -- I bike too), I always check the bike lane, and then signaling, get in the bike lane with my car, and then make the right turn from the bike lane so as not to cross it. This is technically wrong, but I feel it is just safer for everybody.

As for not looking, it is instinct to look in the direction one is aiming their vehicle. It is very hard to check the blind spot and then separately check the forward direction.

Date: 2009-06-05 01:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
get in the bike lane with my car, and then make the right turn from the bike lane so as not to cross it

I think this is a good practice. Turning *across* a lane is pretty much the most dangerous thing you can do in this situation. Getting in the lane (and as close to the edge of the road as possible, basically forces bicycles to go around you on your left (which they should be doing anyway).

It is very hard to check the blind spot and then separately check the forward direction.

It's also not something drivers have to do in pretty much any other situation where they are driving defensively. This basically guarantees that a bicyclist cannot count on a driver to do it.

Date: 2009-06-04 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetathx1138.livejournal.com
Allston has a higher percentage of shitty cyclists. Not that Cambridge/Somerville's are any great shakes, but it frankly amazes me there aren't more cycling fatalities in Allston. I once saw a small group just blow right through Comm Ave and Harvard, nearly causing an accident.

Date: 2009-06-04 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
I once saw a small group just blow right through Comm Ave and Harvard, nearly causing an accident.

I think 100 percent of the reason there aren't more cycling fatalities is just that speeds in the city (of both cars and bicycles) just aren't that fast.

Date: 2009-06-04 09:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetathx1138.livejournal.com
Yeah, that's definitely a safe assumption.

Date: 2009-06-04 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
A lot of novice bicyclists believe that they are safer bicycling in the suburbs because roads are wider and things are further apart, but the relative speed (and lack of other bicyclists) completely negates this and makes biking in the suburbs (on anything other than side roads) actually feel rather terrifying. Not to mention the drivers are always surprised to see you (and typically unhappy about it).

Date: 2009-06-05 03:27 pm (UTC)
ext_86356: (grinnybike)
From: [identity profile] qwrrty.livejournal.com
I'm skeptical of this. To the best of my knowledge, the statistics on car-bike accidents indicate that a crash resulting from a car passing a cyclist are one of the least common kinds of bike crashes. Right-hook crashes at an intersection and getting "doored" are much more common.

I totally hear you that biking in the suburbs can *feel* more scary because of the relative speeds of the other cars. I just don't think it actually puts you at greater risk.

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