Moved before sweep

[ringrose.livejournal.com]

Many years ago, I went outside to move a housemate's car to discover a cop putting a street sweeping ticket on it. He was a nice guy, but once he had printed the ticket couldn't rescind it. However, he wrote "Moved before sweep" on the ticket and initialed it, and we were able to get it waived.

Last night, at about quarter after midnight a friend and I came to his car and discovered pretty much the exact same situation. Cop has printed out the ticket. We talked to him, asked him to put a note on it saying moved before sweep. He wasn't as friendly, and seemed convinced that putting a note on it wouldn't work, but I asked nicely and he eventually said he would do it. My friend drove home with his ticket.



It seems silly that once a policeman has printed a ticket, he cannot change his mind even if more information comes to light. What would it take to give them a little more discretion here? I'm talking about the ability to cancel their own tickets within some fixed amount of time, such as an hour. At minimum, it would help with relations between the police and the community.
If it's just a computer thing, computers can be reprogrammed.

But somebody has to decide that it's a good idea - who's the right person to convince?


...or do the police prefer to have a point at which they can say "It's out of my hands, please stop arguing with me?"





Edit June 24:
This discussion has shed some interesting light on the topic. Thank you for taking the time to participate.

Comments

[ron_newman]

I think one motivation for this rule is to prevent bribery.

[tober.livejournal.com]

Yes, this. "Ticket fixing", i.e.- causing a ticket to disappear (in exchange for some sort of bribe typically) without due (such as it is for these things) process, used to be very common. I'm sure it still sometimes happens, but at least the system that is now in place limits the pool of people who would be capable of doing such a thing - particularly the police (as far as I know) can't cause a parking ticket to go away. Presumably there are people who work in traffic and parking who still could do so if they were corrupt but hopefully the information systems are designed so that they at least could not do so without creating an auditable record.

[ringrose.livejournal.com]

And the difference between "I'll rescind this ticket if you bribe me" and "I'll not write this ticket if you bribe me" is what, exactly?

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

If there's a record of a ticket, they've got to explain why the ticket was rescinded. If there's a consistent record of rescinded tickets, I'm assuming somebody will have some explaining to do.

[srakkt.livejournal.com]

the difference is an auditable paper trail and a difference in probabilities; it simply isn't as likely that you'll get to the car before the ticket is written but after the infraction has taken place. Almost by definition, if you're at your car before you've gotten the ticket, you're moving it.

[tober.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, it doesn't stop all such bribery... but the bribing of the police officer (or T&P employee) to not write the ticket has to take place during the usually very brief window between when that person begins to contemplate writing a ticket and when he or she actually does so.

[yakshaver.livejournal.com]

The difference is the time window: If you and the parking cop are in close enough proximity for you to potentially bribe her, then one of three possibilities obtains:

1. You see her soon enough to just move your car, which you would presumably choose to do rather than pay a bribe.
2. You don't see her in time to move your car, but still before she's written the ticket.
3. You find the ticket on your car and she is still in sight, so you attempt to work it out with her.

The time window for scenario 2 is pretty damned short as compared to scenario 3. The system as deployed leaves only that narrow window open for bribery.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

Playing devil's advocate here, why should it matter if the car was moved right then, if it was there long enough after the "No Parking" window had opened for them to write the ticket?

Letting them rescind tickets immediately would also support bribes and other such questionable actions to influence the decision.

That said, I absolutely support contesting it and wish you and your friend good luck.

[ringrose.livejournal.com]

Addressing your devil's advocate, then:
It matters because the point of the no parking window is to have that side of the street clear for sweepers.

It was clear.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

By that reasoning, people shouldn't be issued speeding tickets unless they are speeding in what is determined to be an unsafe manner, since those laws are there to maintain safety. Or if you go through a red light when there are no other cars around.

[ron_newman]

Before the nationally-imposed 55 mph speed limit in the 1970s, some states actually had a "reasonable and proper speed" law much like you described here.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

In Massachusetts, it's not illegal to faster than the number on the sign (or the default limit on unposted roads). Going faster than the posted speed limit can be used as evidence of an unsafe speed, but isn't illegal itself.

In practice, this means you'd probably win an appeal for a ticket for going one or two mph above the limit.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

I think the incentive is to get you to move your car before street sweeping, even if you remember a bit late and have gotten a ticket.

Of course, now that parking tickets are a major part of city revenue I suspect the parking office is less willing to do this.

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

that'd be nice...over in cambridge, you get the ticket when you pick up your car from the tow lot, heh.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I understand the incentive, but still, as someone commented below, the sign says no parking X hours, so you park there those hours, you get a ticket. How does that demonstrate any problem with the system?

[madscientist01.livejournal.com]

Agreed. You are being ticketed for not following posted parking rules, it doesn't matter whether you are directly in the way of the sweeper at that moment. If that was the case, why can't I park in a handicapped space if there's no one in it at the time? Why can't I go through a red light if I don't see anyone coming? Can I drive the wrong way down a one way, and then have the ticket dismissed if no one else was driving on the street at the time?

[genesayssitdown.livejournal.com]

should have tried bribing him

[rainbow-spork.livejournal.com]

It's not a computer thing, because about 8 years ago or so--back when tickets were hand-written with carbon copies--I parked my car in the Buena Vista lot in Davis during business hours and forgot that I would actually need to put money in the meter, since I was so used to parking there at night. I got back to my car while the cop was in the middle of writing me a ticket. When I joked that I'd seen her from across the lot and was wondering if I'd get to my car before she did, she said, "Oh, I you should've shouted to me or something because I wouldn't have written the ticket. But now that I've started I have to issue it."

[geekpixie.livejournal.com]

If this was for street sweeping, then the tickets should only be issued between the times when street cleaning is performed. I thought this was either 7:30am or 8:30am on (parking regs pdf doesn't say when and I'm not home to look outside at signs). If they are ticketing people before this time, when many people leave long before street cleaning for work, etc, that seems fairly shady...

Did the car have a Somerville parking sticker?

[aquaflame16.livejournal.com]

some major streets, such as Broadway, I believe, (and College Ave?) have midnight-6am(?) sweeping windows, presumably in order to not have sweeping during times local businesses on those streets are open.

[geekpixie.livejournal.com]

oh! Ok, that makes perfect sense. I was thinking of my own street was feeling very confused!

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

i was wondering the same thing, and, if that's the case, why the hell should the ticket be thrown out? the sign said, essentially, don't park here between x hours, and you did, so...you get a ticket.

[uberjay.livejournal.com]

Yeah, broadway street sweeping starts at midnight. I know this from personal experience from a week ago Sunday night. Booooo. :P

starting something

[perich.livejournal.com]

It seems silly that once a policeman has printed a ticket, he cannot change his mind even if more information comes to light.

If you look at this behavior not through the lens of Serving And Protecting The Public, but from the lens of Maximizing Police Revenue, then it makes a lot more sense.

[tt02144.livejournal.com]

FYI......parking tickets are written by Traffic & Parking employees, not the police (on rare instances the police will stop to write a ticket if they see a particularly unsafe situation).
The optimist in me says that perhaps new employees are afraid to rescind tickets they've written or that it's a 'computer thing'.....
But the cynic in me says that they no longer invalidate them because if they do they lose REVENUE and that's the name of the game. By the same token, they used to forgive them at hearings if you had extenuating circumstances but no more. There are lots of horror stories out there on that one. It's all about the $$$$.

[jennymcflint.livejournal.com]

It is not true that an officer cannot void a ticket once it has been printed. By coincidence, I had a ticket rescinded on the spot YESTERDAY.

A friend of mine was walking past my house when she noticed my car getting ticketed. She's had her own battles with the T&P office (who hasn't?), so she rang my doorbell to alert me. The officer had walked away from my car, having left the ticket on the windshield. When I asked him what the ticket was for, he said I didn't have a permit. Well of course I DO have a permit, right there on the driver's side of the windshield. When I pointed out the obvious, he walked over to the car and removed the ticket and said, "I guess I must be blind."

My concern about T&P officers writing bogus tickets aside (did someone say "revenue"???)--they certainly can void a ticket after it's been written.

[ringrose.livejournal.com]

Given the things I've seen so far in this thread, my guess is that they have a procedure for "I made a mistake" which is a pain, a bunch of paperwork, and audited. Basically, annoying enough that they won't do it unless they actually _did_ make a mistake.

It feels like there's a difference between "I made a mistake" and "I'm making a judgement call after the fact." The second is more open to bribery and probably looked at more closely.