A good day

[pch1.livejournal.com]

So I knew yesterday was going to be a good day when I was able to walk by both Starbucks and Diesel Cafe without being approached by any of the kids repping Save The GreenPeace Children from Masspirg.  Then I started to wonder, why is it that these guys can so relentlessly solicit donations everyday, yet if they were to put down their clipboards and strap on a guitar and play for donations they could be ticketed or asked to stop for performing without a permit.

What's up with the priorities around here.  I'd much rather be passing by a street performer than a political missionary.

Comments

[ron_newman]

I'm not aware of any city ordinance prohibiting busking. Are you sure about this?

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

And as far as I know, there's no street performer permits in Somerville either. Cambridge and the MBTA require them, and Brookline bans street performers entirely, but I don't think permits are required anywhere else around here, including Boston.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, since it's not inconceivable that I'd busk in Somerville at some point.

[nyusha81.livejournal.com]

oh man, I cannot stand those people. I often think that this street-team approach is actually doing a disservice to the cause, because I now i just want to hide every time I hear "save the children". I've actually changed where I walk because they irritate me so much.

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

You should tell local businesses that you no longer walk past them because you want to avoid these people. I bet that would get the attention of some businesspeople!

[lonelyholiday.livejournal.com]

I've actually changed where I walk because they irritate me so much.
I agree with koshmom. The Porter Dunkin Donuts in particular should object, because I walk by both there and the Brueggers every morning on my way to work. I usually stop at DD for coffee, but when there's a solicitor out front, I'll cross the street earlier and go to Brueggers instead. The Amnesty/Save the Children kids are costing DD my hard-earned $2 many, many days.

It especially annoys me when there are three or four of them from the same organization in a couple-block radius and I have to put on my polite face to turn them ALL down, over and over. Though I know it sounds totally insane (because it probably wears on them a lot more being constantly turned down, and probably by people a lot ruder than me), it really starts to wear on me when I have to walk by six or seven solicitors and/or panhandlers in one trip. My lovely parents have instilled such guilt and such a constant need to be polite to EVERYONE that no matter how nicely I say "sorry" or "no thanks" or "not today" or whatever, I STILL get kind of upset and feel really guilty about it.

Like I said, I'm crazy, and I know that. Doesn't make me feel any better about it. I really take it to heart that each person probably thinks I'm cold-hearted.

[maelithil.livejournal.com]

Whine harder.

[ron_newman]

I don't think it's really whining. The constant solicitations on Elm Street are a real annoyance. I give to some of these organizations but do so by mail and not because someone is harassing me on the street.

[thebostonreader.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I feel a little sorry for them because they are so earnest, and I know they don't make a lot of money, but I also go out of my way to avoid them.

The approach must work, though, or the PIRGs wouldn't keep sending them out every day, right? I don't think I've ever given them money or signed up on their clipboards or whatever they are looking for. I actually don't really know because I avoid them so much.

[lonelyholiday.livejournal.com]

Ha, this kind of goes along with my over-long comment above. I really wonder how this works out for them because I see three or four of the SAME PEOPLE from the SAME ORGANIZATIONS over and over... I would assume in places like Davis and Porter, you have mostly the same people walking by all the time, not a high turnover of new faces/new potential customers (customers? donators?) like you would in a touristy area or something.

So what kind of return are they getting? Do they snag a new person or two every day who hasn't seen them before? Do they just finally wear people down, and when they see MASSPIRG for the billion-and-first time, they suddenly say "Hey, I should donate"? Hasn't happened to me yet, and I've been walking by those dudes for probably 6 years now.

It just seems like they should be changing it up more often. But clearly I'm no expert.

[qwrrty.livejournal.com]

Then I started to wonder, why is it that these guys can so relentlessly solicit donations everyday, yet if they were to put down their clipboards and strap on a guitar and play for donations

This is a brilliant idea and I hope some adventurous MASSPIRG chapter takes it on.

Yeah, earn donations by offering something good to the community!

[turil.livejournal.com]

I, too, think it's a great idea. I'm a big fan of non-profits earning money by actually doing useful things that people will pay for.

[miss-lisa-ma.livejournal.com]

I actually complaiend to the HQ of Save the Children about one of their teams in Quincy Center recently. They were so aggressive, rude and self-righteous they were driving people away, taking 4 or 5 "no"'s and challenging you on every response before they'd leave you alone. Not the greatest approach to compel people to see you and your cause sympathetically.

I got a very nice response from HQ. Haven't seen the little buggers back. They really need a new coach/supervisor/whatever.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

such folx get one polite "no", and if they persist, it depends on how good or bad my day has been what phrase they get next ;) it's performance art :)

#

[stormsdotter.livejournal.com]

I tend to say, "No thanks," and keep walking. These people plague the area near where I work, and they drive me crazy. If one of them had a guitar, and a box for change, I'd be much more likely to give them a dollar.

I do not like giving money to beggars. People who improve the noise of the city I try to give something to, even if it's just a quarter.

[whaler.livejournal.com]

I don't even think you could hand them cash to "give to green peace" they want you credit card number/bank account and monthly donations.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

And there's just no way I'm going to give that info to some random person on the street. I do all such giving online these days.

[sonofabish.livejournal.com]

I feel badly for the kids doing this. They mean well and they want to work at a job that satisfies their desire to make a positive impact. But the system itself sucks- these kids are paid crap plus commission, so yeah, they're eager to try to get donations. That's not to say I don't cross the street or tell them I'm in favor of nuking whales and then using the bones to club seals when I'm feeling a bit peckish and in no mood to be approached. But still, I do understand where they're coming from.

And thanks to all who support musicians. My wife might be one of them out there after she arrives. :)

[turil.livejournal.com]

I did it for one day and our commission was 50% of the donations, but no other pay. It sucked. But sometimes people are desperate. So I can understand why people stick with it for a while.

[tober.livejournal.com]

I would even argue that a prohibition on busking or even requiring busking permits[1], at least under certain circumstances, infringes unacceptably on one's first amendment rights. Particularly, for example, it is possible for busking to be a form of political statement and if it is done in a public place and in a manner that does not unreasonably interfere with other users of that space and if it is not overly loud then that very much ought to be considered a protected activity. Further, busking is really not an act of commerce even if the performer leaves his instrument case open to receive tips. Donation-soliciting, on the other hand, in many cases is a commercial activity especially when, as is often the case, the person soliciting donations is an employee of a for-profit organization that has been hired by a non-profit group for the purpose of fund-raising. Thus, it seems to me that, if anything, fund-raising ought to be considered a less-constitutionally-protected activity than busking.

[1] I don't like the idea of needing a busking permit but if they're going to be required (as they are in Cambridge) then I think they're only acceptable if they are "must issue" and provided on a non-discriminatory basis and only for the purpose of controlling the density of busking in popular locations.

[ron_newman]

In Cambridge, the issue was more amplified noise than density. One purpose of the permit system there is to ensure that every performer is familiar with the noise regulations.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Somerville has absolutely no permit process for busking whatsoever. So, basically, those kids COULD strap on a guitar.

As for limiting canvassers, I refer you to the Bill of Rights, Amendment One.

[ron_newman]

if the canvassers were soliciting petition signatures they would be absolutely protected by the First Amendment, but that's a little less clear-cut when they are asking for donations. And even less so if they are engaging in aggressive panhandling.

[overstim.livejournal.com]

Its a hell of a lot better than Turkey. Its Davis Square, what do you want? Move to Gardner.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Turkey is really effing awesome, so I don't get the comparison.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

.. And if it was a different terrorist organization, such as, say, hamas or al qaeda soliciting, they'd be federally fucked!

Hey, hey, hey....

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

I bitched about Jehovah's Witnesses harassing people in Davis Sq a few days ago and some people implied I'm an anti-religious monster (which I am). Things are just getting a bit out of control with all these folks trying to get a piece of us while we take a nice walk!

Re: Hey, hey, hey....

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

I totally thought you just said you were a jehovah's witness.

[anyee.livejournal.com]

I actively walk in the street to avoid these guys. I'm at the point where I inform them I hate children and the environment and hope everyone dies!

Do you hate puppy seals too?

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

Nobody does.

[jodi.livejournal.com]

I have to say that crossing the street or putting on headphones or going through the trouble to fake a phone call to avoid these people isn't going to make anything any better.
I hate this form of advertisement/solicitation/consciousness-raising.
When they speak to me, I inform them as politely as possible that any organization that can afford spare either paid or unpaid workers to solicit support on the street in not in need of my contributions. This invariably make the person I'm talking to instantly angry at me but their anger does not change the way I feel about this particular method of activism. If everyone who feels this way shared their feelings with the organization (whether at the street level or by calling/emailing) then the message will get through and the organization can decide if the return is really worth it.

slightly less annoyed...

[wellthan.livejournal.com]

Even though I am annoyed by the canvassers, I always think of this story when I see them, (especially the young women) and feel slightly less annoyed:

When I canvassed for Greenpeace 15 years ago, we went door to door, SOLO. During one of our rounds, one of the female canvassers was flashed (pants down) by a man answering his door.
Greenpeace then changed their canvassing policy so that we would only go out in pairs from then on. It seems that at this point, they and other organizations like them have moved away from door-to-door altogether.

Re: slightly less annoyed...

[dystocia.livejournal.com]

When I canvassed for the Sierra Club back in 2003, we went door to door also. One guy answered the door holding a 22 and told me to get the f*** off his property. (this was in Maine)

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I find them really annoying, but I at least sympathize with the folks shilling for organizations I support.

OTOH, when the guy representing the so-called HRC stopping me in the street as I was getting on my bike, I took the time to tell him why I would never support his organization. He clearly had no real idea what the HRC even did, ignored everything I said, and tried to make me out to be some sort of homophobe for not supporting them. I hate to even think about all the well-intentioned money going down the drain there.

[elements.livejournal.com]

I had a similar encounter at Pride. They hadn't remotely altered their "Do you have a minute for gay rights?" pitch, and I finally said to one that given I'd just spent the whole day at a queer event, perhaps the issue wasn't whether I had a minute for gay rights, but whether their org had a minute for the rights of any more marginalized queer populations. Doubt it could have any effect, but it really irked me to be asked if I "had a minute" when I was clearly attending an explicitly queer event.

[waaronw.livejournal.com]

I support many of the organizations, but absolutely not this form of fundraising. (It seems to work for them, but I don't necessarily believe it to be a "necessary evil")

I have made up a large "No Solicitors" button which I wear on the strap of my bag. When they approach, I smile and point to the button. If they don't see it or don't understand, it seems to at least confuse them long enough for me to get away.

When I am without my button, I usually just say "No" but sometimes I'll let them know I support the cause, but not the methods.

If they all had guitars, I would think more seriously about giving them the time of day.

[teele-sq.livejournal.com]

The truly insidious thing about these solicitors is that they exist to harvest direct marketing information. Give them a donation, sign their petition, and then see how long it takes before you start receiving mailings from the "Ingrown Toenail Relief Foundation" or the "People for the Ethical Treatment of Tollbooth Operators" asking you for even more money.

The one perk is that you'll have enough personalized return-address labels to last a lifetime (provided you never move).

So I do suggest that if you ever feel compelled to donate, you do it anonymously, with cash. Sure, it might give the kid a chance to pocket your money and not report it. But don't you think they should? They work a shit job where everyone crosses the street to avoid them. And you're a sucker who stopped to talk to them.

True!

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

I have a drawer FULL of nice stickies with my address. Too bad I almost never mail stuff.

[starry83.livejournal.com]

I try to avoid the solicitors too, but if they do engage me, I say I've already donated to their cause or am a member of Greenpeace or whatnot. They can't argue with that... they do usually want a high five though.

[cold-type.livejournal.com]

I feel bad for the kids. It wasn't their idea to solicit donations.

They applied for a job because they needed cash and were assigned to solicit donations on busy street corners. Then they're put under intense pressure to meet their "quota."

I had to go to door-to-door soliciting donations for MassPIRG years ago. I lasted a week before I quit. It's the worst job I've ever had.

[callmetothejedi.livejournal.com]

I interviewed for a job with Grassroots Campaigns earlier this year. The second part of my interview consisted of going out with a team of people and canvassing in Roslindale. I quickly discovered that I hated going door to door, asking for donations, and I decided that working for Grassroots Campaigns was not the job for me.