[identity profile] erikgarrison.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] davis_square
What are some ways that cyclists can positively engage drivers, gain their respect, and encourage them to use caution when they are sharing the road with cyclists?

Date: 2010-07-13 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
As I said before, there is certainly no "rule of the road" dictating that a bicyclist cannot straddle the edge of the bike lane.

Re, your second comment, firstly, why would someone do that OTHER than for the purpose of being hit by a car? And secondly, even if you hit someone who was doing that with your car (or bicycle) you would still be just as at-fault as you would be if you were to hit someone dressed entirely in international orange, in a cross walk, in broad daylight. Unfair, perhaps, but true.

Lastly, this was supposed to be a discussion about:
1. What are some ways that cyclists can positively engage drivers

I think we're doing this! Well, sometimes more positively than others but, it's a start!

2. gain their respect, and

As I said in a previous comment (to someone else), I don't think this is likely to happen until the number of bicyclists on the road grows enough that it wouldn't even occur to the most devoted driver to say things like "If a place in my own city isn't easy enough to get to by bicycle, people should just use a car." In other words, bicycles must first become so ubiquitous that drivers expect to deal with them on ALL roads at ALL times the same way it is now with cars.

3. encourage them to use caution when they are sharing the road with cyclists?

Well I'm trying but the prevailing attitude coming from drivers seems to be: If my car is dangerous to bicyclists then bicyclists should try to stay as far away from it as possible, even if that means taking a different route or not taking a bicycle at all. Given how hard it is to get a city to invest in bicycling infrastructure BEFORE anyone is actually biking anywhere, this seems like a pretty dependable way to make sure that biking never becomes any more popular in Boston than it is today.

Date: 2010-07-13 11:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tfarrell.livejournal.com
"As I said before, there is certainly no "rule of the road" dictating that a bicyclist cannot straddle the edge of the bike lane."

Hmm. The state might beg to differ from you. There is a very specific instruction to motorcyclists in the stae drivers manual: "Do not ride along pavement lines, between lanes of traffic." It also says to bicyclists: "When riding on public ways, bicyclists must obey the same basic traffic laws and regulations that apply to motor vehicle operators." I think it's pretty clear that two wheeled vehicles are not permitted to ride down the line between lanes.

But if you don't believe me, then I suppose you might as well go get a car and drive straight down the middle of the line between lanes for a few hours, and see what the cops have to say about it. After all, the rules of the road are the same for cars as for bicycles.

Date: 2010-07-13 11:42 pm (UTC)
ext_86356: (madblog)
From: [identity profile] qwrrty.livejournal.com
I think you're correct that according to the letter of the law, bicyclists cannot ride exactly on the line between lanes. But I'm not sure how meaningful this is in practice. I gather that the law for motorcycles is there to prevent lane splitting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting) But Massachusetts law specifically permits lane splitting for bicycles: "the bicycle operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle which is moving in the travel lane of the way." (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm)

This technically makes sense in that bicycles have a narrower profile than most motorcycles, so a bicycle can usually pass a car on the right while staying in the lane. But then if you're lane splitting anyway, what difference does it make whether you're staying (narrowly) in one lane or riding right on the lane divider? I'm unsure that there's any sound policy behind the wording of this law.

More generally, I'm puzzled that this seems to bother you a lot as a general principle, even apart from whether a cyclist is doing it to slip between lanes of stopped traffic (which is genuinely dangerous). When there is a bike lane, I usually ride a couple of inches to the left of the lane in order to stay out of the door zone. When the pavement is bad, I often slip into the very left side of the bike lane to avoid potholes. It sounds like this is the kind of behavior that you say enrages drivers. I'm honestly not sure why it would.

Date: 2010-07-14 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tfarrell.livejournal.com
I don't agree with you that "the bicycle operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle which is moving in the travel lane of the way" means that bicycles may split lanes; if anything, a bicycle splitting lanes in the manner we're discussing is not keeping to the right, they're keeping to the left. If they were keeping to the right of the bicycle lane, they'd be bumping into parked cars or the curb. If they were keeping to the right of the regular lane, they'd be... in the bicycle lane.

Why it bothers me... bicycle lanes take 3 to 4 feet of the road width away from regular lanes, thus making regular lanes narrower, harder to negotiate, and less safe... and then bicyclists refuse to use them, instead preferring to straddle lanes, making any attempt to use regular lanes even more perilous. And then to top it all off, here I am hearing blatant disregard for rules of the road, and people getting all snippy at me for having the unmitigated gall to suggest that bicyclists ought to obey the law and are stupid if they choose to deliberately ride on roads on which they don't feel safe.

Is it not apparent why that would be somewhat galling?

Date: 2010-07-14 12:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
The rule you speak of does not apply to the bike lane. I am not allowed to ride, say, along the broken white line down the middle of the Mystic Valley Parkway, but I *am* allowed to do that with the bike lane.

Date: 2010-07-14 04:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tfarrell.livejournal.com
So again, you are basically saying you're somehow above the law.

I have nothing further to say to you, since you're clearly convinced you're too good to have to obey the same laws as everyone else.

Date: 2010-07-14 11:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] m00n.livejournal.com
The bike lane IS a special lane designed for bikes. Thus it is obviously going to be one of the few places on the road where there are special rules that apply to bikes and NOT cars. It is designed this way for the safety and comfort of the bicyclists ONLY. This does not mean that a bicyclist who obeys these special bike rules is "above the law." Instead it means they are following the rules for bicycles. What's wrong with that exactly? What would be the point of a bike lane if cars were allowed to drive in it?

Profile

davis_square: (Default)
The Davis Square Community

January 2026

S M T W T F S
    123
456 78 910
11121314151617
181920212223 24
25262728293031

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jan. 27th, 2026 07:43 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios