Paved over Davis Square

[smoterh.livejournal.com]

During last week's Public Safety Committee hearing a large amount of time was spend on the impact of bricks and brick pavers and people with disabilities.  Currently the disability commissions and groups from around the area are waging  a jihad against brick paved sidewalks and intend to block any future projects that plan to use them.  It was also revealed in the meeting that the city hired a designer to plan for the eventual redesign of Davis Square.

Since opposing folks with disabilities is an equivalent of political suicide , it is almost a given that when the redesign of the Davis Square happens, the brick-paved streets of Davis Square, as well as the heart of the Square itself, will be paved over or replaced by concrete or asphalt.

Do you think that Davis will loose much of it's charm when the red bricks are replaced by gray concrete?  Will the square still feel like an inviting place to hang out on a summer day?

Comments

[misterthorn.livejournal.com]

Are these really the only two options, inaccessible brick and "gray concrete"?

[smoterh.livejournal.com]

to be honest, i don't really know but from what i've seen around the various sidewalks in somerville/cambridge/boston it's either bricks, brick pavers, concrete or asphalt

[emannths.livejournal.com]

I know next to nothing about paving, but...

There's got to be something more durable/flat than bricks but more aesthetically pleasing than plain concrete. Right? I hope?

[smoterh.livejournal.com]

i've occasionally seen natural stone slabs but that shit is deadly when wet.

[talonvaki.livejournal.com]

Next they'll be getting rid of bricks in Boston and Cambridge. I see the argument, but I don't like it.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

Is the aesthetic charm of red brick really worth making walkways inaccessible for people? I grew up in a suburb with traditional gray sidewalks, and I didn't find it any less charming for that. I -- an able-bodied pedestrian -- certainly don't find the bricks charming when they're poorly shoveled/plowed (and on days I have walked to work in high heels, I have cursed the brick/cobblestone in Harvard Square).

[sparkgrrl658.livejournal.com]

DING

everything in this comment, yes. especially when it's snowy/icy, and moreso for all the times i've rolled an ankle because a spot missing brick(s) is covered with snow or leaves.

[slinkr.livejournal.com]

Surely there are places they can use brick (borders etc.) to preserve the look while still making things accessible.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

This is the solution many communities are finding - see, for instance, the decorative edge along the new sidewalks on Somerville Ave and at Magoun Square.

(Of course, both of those projects are taking heat for using pavers in the crosswalks, though they're being misidentified as "brick" crosswalks.)

[knowthyself.livejournal.com]

I'm with the 'there must be something better than just grey concrete' group here. The bricks look so nice! But inaccesibility for some people does suck.

I don't think it would so bad on the sidewalks, but the area in front of JP Licks, etc, would be the place that would really suffer aesthetically. Maybe if they also spruced it up with more greenery or something when they inevitably get rid of the bricks. Or did some nice stone slabs, a la Copley Plaza?

[smoterh.livejournal.com]

asphalt still has many problems if it's not kept up (just like bricks)

1. in front of my house, the sidewalk which has an asphalt pavement there is 5 inch tall 'continental divide'. I see people tripping on it all the time.

2. South Street in Boston (where I work) is partially brick, partially asphalt. The asphalt part has 2-3 inch height difference between each slab (every 4 feet or so), while the brick part is relatively smooth.

[lizzielizzie.livejournal.com]

In downtown Lowell we have cobblestone side streets, which is a big accessibility problem (not to mention just plain lumpy). They took out some of the cobblestones and redid the crosswalks with pavement to make it easier. Perhaps a similar compromise would work here as well?

[ron_newman]

Those streets aren't much fun for bicycles either. But if you want to see total inaccessibility, check out downtown Nantucket.

[ron_newman]

See also this earlier post on the same subject.

[ursamajor]

Given that icy sidewalks are a problem five months out of twelve, has there been any research done on whether certain types of sidewalks are easier to shovel/less likely to form black ice?

I do agree that brick is pretty and so are patterns-on-walkways (and there is importance to a certain degree of historical preservation/recognition), but there's a decent chunk of the year where it won't be seen anyway, so as an able-bodied person, I would prefer the option that will minimize the number of times I slip on the aforementioned black ice and fall on my butt every winter. I seem to remember falling more frequently on brick than concrete, but I haven't actively kept track.

[smoterh.livejournal.com]

in all seriousness, the right solution to that problem should be heated sidewalks in heavy pedestrian areas like davis square, rather than worrying about the surface type. it's really the snow that makes you slip, not the paving type, so heated sidewalks would get to the root of the problem. if they are redesigning the square, they might as well put some hot water tubing under the pavers/bricks/pavement or whatever. they have heated sidewalks in helsinki and they are freakin awesome.

[hrafn.livejournal.com]

Will the square still feel like an inviting place to hang out on a summer day?

Only if they install some sort of fountain or cooling device.

More seriously, though, yes, brick-colored paving is prettier than grey concrete, but the unevenness that real brick pavement is prone to is hazardous even for people who aren't presently disabled, and the older it gets, the more awful it looks. Tinted concrete would probably be a way to address both the accessibility/general safety issues -and- give us something prettier than grey concrete.

Stone would be a friggin' nightmare - Denver has a lovely pedestrian mall that is paved in part with stone, and that stuff can be really treacherous when wet, if you aren't wearing just the right shoes.

Since opposing folks with disabilities is an equivalent of political suicide

As well it should be.

Good design can provide pleasing aesthetics without telling a large number of people that their safety and ability to enjoy an inviting public space isn't worth anything. And since any one of us currently able-bodied people could wind up disabled (car accident, bad fall on ice, age, etc.), it would be dreadfully, stupidly short-sighted to NOT try and remake a space to be as welcoming as possible for as many people as possible.

[jadelennox]

As well it should be.

Indeed. Some of we accessibility jihadis even like pretty sidewalks, as long as we can get out and about in the square which is part of our neighborhood, too.

A lot of work has gone into designing pretty but accessible sidewalks, but such things cost money and ongoing maintenance. I have no idea if the people in the commission meeting have read up or not, but the federal government provides some really fabulous resources, such as the completely apropos designing sidewalks and trails for access, chapter 4, sidewalk corridors, part 4.3.1, decorative surface materials.

Universal design benefits everyone and can be attractive.

Some links:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/sidewalk2/index.htm
http://www.access-board.gov/news/sidewalk-videos.htm
http://www.access-board.gov/prowac/index.htm

OP, in answer to your question: Will the square still feel like an inviting place to hang out on a summer day?

Are you also addressing that question to the people who live in and around Davis Square but have mobility issues? Because for many such people, the square will become a heck of a lot MORE inviting, because it will become easier or at all possible for it to BE a place to hang out on a summer day.

[gruene.livejournal.com]

Dare I suggest that the problem is not brick per se, but poorly maintained brick? The One Kendall Square plaza area is brickwork, but very smooth. Likewise there are plenty of concrete sidewalks that are horrible, not just for those with disabilities, but anyone who wants to want down the sidewalk without staring at their feet. Maybe brick gets into poor condition faster, but if that's the case the question should be cost and frequency of resurfacing verses the aesthetic benefit.

[smoterh.livejournal.com]

well you'd think that, but that's not the case. brand new bricks had to be torn up from huntington avenue in 2009, not because they were brand new and well maintained bricks, but because they WERE bricks.

[cn-i-crash-here.livejournal.com]

It was also revealed in the meeting that the city hired a designer to plan for the eventual redesign of Davis Square.

I wanna know how thorough this eventual redesign will be. Could we see a new traffic signal system with sensible pedestrian phases?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

I believe this was part of the scope of work of the original Request for Proposals that the City issued (analyzing pedestrian safety, signalizing, and timing, that is). So it ought to at least be looked at.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Fully abled, and happy to see the bricks gone. They're great when new, but ugly when old, and the uneven surface is unpleasant to walk on and irritating to move anything with wheels over. We didn't start paving sidewalks with concrete for nothing.

That said, somebody mentioned dyeing the concrete and I'd be fully behind that. No reason we can't unleash the local artists on our sidewalks.

[svilletheatre.livejournal.com]

I realize I may be in the extreme minority here, but I can't stand the look of brick sidewalks. I think that cement is more pleasing - cleaner looking. The brick is grimy and garbage gets caught in all the cracks. I don't find the brick charming at all. I think plantings and businesses that sweep their sidewalks do a heck of a lot more for the streetscape.

As I said in the other post on this subject, I'm glad that at the theater we still have cement sidewalks (because our basement extends under the sidewalks they were never changed when the square was re-done in the 80's.) They are easier to keep clean, easier to shovel, and of course easier for the disabled as mentioned.

As for any redesign of the square, I wonder if they would consider making many of the one-way streets into two-way streets. Up until the mid 80's, Elm and Highland were both two-way streets and it worked well enough for the first 100 years.

Ian/Somerville Theatre

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

I say bring on the concrete. It's far easier to walk on when there's snow or ice. Even rain can make bricks slippery.

I remember a particular storm a year or two ago where the ice-glazed bricks were so slippery that I couldn't make progress up the ramps at corners. I had to walk in the street just to be able to move.

And I find it almost impossible to shovel brick. The shovel gets caught every few inches.

I go to Davis Square because of the performance venues, restaurants, my friends' houses, shops, and public gathering spaces, not because of sidewalk materials.

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

Personally I dislike brick walkways because of the unexpectantness of irregularities in the smoothness factor. I've almost twisted an ankle walking on brick walkways, and I'm a pretty dern sure footed person. If it's not a smooth, easy to walk on walkway, it's pretty dern useless as a walkway!

I once read somewhere that Medford or the environs was a major manufacturer of bricks in days of yore. So I'm not surprised that there were many places that legislated the use of brick on public ways, be it elderly legislation or modern legislation trying to "maintain the historical feel" of the city/town.

If you want the brick look so much, there are methods of making a walkway look like brick without the downsides (i.e. uneven, single brick lossage, failing mortar, etc).

[blinkidybah.livejournal.com]

Currently the disability commission and groups from around the area are waging a jihad against brick paved sidewalks

Because wanting to be able to move around is totally comparable to involving themselves in violent conflict, yeah.


It would be nice if there could be some exploration into things like precast surfaces that might look a little better, but for myself I'd rather have a square that's accessible to everyone than one that excludes people because aesthetics are more important. :-/

[jadelennox]

Because wanting to be able to move around is totally comparable to involving themselves in violent conflict

You're only saying that since opposing folks with disabilities is an equivalent of political suicide, dontcha know? Because the People-with-Disabilities Mafia runs Somerville with an iron fist. (It's like iron because it's wearing a brace. Oh I crack myself up.)

[thespian.livejournal.com]

maybe the day to post this wasn't the day when I watched people slipping in front of Christo's, and had to use the curb on my bad ankle (sprain and hairline fracture on leaves 3 months ago) because the iciness of the brick curb cuts meant that I was having to walk out of my way to avoid them, and I really need them right now. I was taking mincey little steps all day in the square because of *fear*, and I didn't have that problem down at South Station after work.

I fell three times in Davis over the summer because of bricks (I have some issues dealing with previous knee issues that mean I can't lift my feet more than about an inch on each step_, and after my ankle fuck up avoided Davis like mad because on my crutches or cane, I was still in lots of pain as every single step meant my foot would be at a different angle coming down.

I would be *thrilled* to have a more accessible square.

Was there some reason to frame this as 'us able bodied people with aesthetics who appreciate charm' against 'those damn cripples who ruin things for the rest of us'?

[mimiambic.livejournal.com]

Have you been to Central Square lately? There are brick sidewalks, and they're a total eyesore. The sidewalk in front of bars and pubs are especially 'aesthetically pleasing' with all the cigarette butts stuck in the cracks, forming charming little dirty white geometric grids.

... and wow. I'm just gonna walk away from the disability rights jihadis thing right now.

Maybe it's pointless to say this, but...

[ratatosk.livejournal.com]

There's enough of people talking past each other here that I just have to take a stab at this. (I realize that people talking past each other is the sole purpose of he Internet, but I can ignore that fact, same as you can.)


I think the charitable interpretation of the original post is that many people are not convinced that alternatives to the current paving would, in fact, be more accessible for various people. So, worst case, one side goes in assuming that everyone agrees that brick pavers are worse in terms of accessibility than concrete or asphalt or whatever, and the other side assumes that if there were any substance to it there would be more facts presented and less noise. (The person above posting lots of links would seem to have the right idea, if anyone follows them, which I'm skeptical about personally.) In any case the question of "what is actually more accessible?" seems to be an existing factual dispute with people on both sides thinking the other is nuts (at least, that's how I'm reading the tone of some of the comments).

Similarly, the city government undoubtedly _does_ pay a lot of attention to the financial implications of things, and might conceivably believe in good faith that the look and feel of Davis helps bring in money that pays for accessibility in other places. You can fight about which places ought to get the money, or how much things actually cost, or whether the money is dependent on the paving at all. I have no idea. I could be wrong, but the simpler explanation probably isn't that anyone is specifically thinking "able-bodied people will be chased away", but something more like "the city is trying to maximise tax revenue by whatever means it can, and doesn't want to give any of it up". That's arguably not any better from an ethical standpoint, but I think it's closer to what's going on.

The preservationist argument is trickier, but I can't tell whether anyone is sincerely making it. How long has Davis looked the way it does, anyway?


My only non-meta 2 cents here is that I'd rather go with the paving method that maximizes long-term usability. I don't want to see a switch to something new used as an excuse to do half-assed maintenance that results in worse accessibility down the road (e.g. "what are you whining about, we switched to concrete for you, you can't expect it to be flat and free of gaping potholes too, geesh"). So, if it were easier to get the city to maintain precast pavers at a certain level of accessibility than it would be to get them to maintain concrete at that same level, and nobody is proposing viable and radical redesigns of city government, I'd go with the pavers every time. It would be nice if that kind of human factor weren't a risk you had to build into the model, but I'm pretty cynical about it personally.


Sorry about the length of that. :P

Re: Maybe it's pointless to say this, but...

[bombardiette.livejournal.com]

This is full of win. Thank you.

[coffeekitty.livejournal.com]

as a bit of a side note, i look at concrete and think "skatepark!"
If they do pour concrete, that aspect could get Interesting.

[rozhinka.livejournal.com]

Another voice for a solution that improves safety and is also economically sustainable so the city will be able to commit to keeping it safe. I'm another technically non-disabled person who tripped on a tilted sidewalk brick on Elm Street and limped for months with a horribly painful bruise on my shin. I love the look of bricks but they are so not worth it. (I'd hang out more if the buskers were better, too.)

[littlecitynames.livejournal.com]

The ablism in this post is making me feel sick. Bricks + inaccessibility < the ugliest sidewalks ever made + accessibility.

[amy-s1.livejournal.com]

Seems like brick-like pavers would be the best compromise. I think the red brick look gives the square some of it's village-like character and would hate to see concrete.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8816/interlockingbrickpavers.jpg