Powder House Circle traffic violations

[somerfriend.livejournal.com]

I've grown increasingly alarmed at the cars running red lights at Powder House Circle.  You take your life into your own hands crossing through there.   Having a walk signal isn't enough to ensure you will survive, you have to make sure no cars are close enough to reach you if they don't decide to stop for their red light.  I shudder to think how dangerous it would be to cross if one was a senior or not able to move quickly.

I realize the design of the rotary is somewhat confusing for the driver and somewhat easy to miss the traffic light as they go around the circle, but I don't really care, one of the most basic part of driving is obeying traffic lights and not injuring people.  

So I guess I'll take this to an alderman, or resistat, or the committee on traffic or something.  Just wondering if there have been efforts in the past.  It seems to me a camera should be installed there and fines issued.  Could be a revenue generator for the city.

Comments

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

If people are running the red lights because they're confused, sending them a ticket in the mail 2 weeks later doesn't solve the problem.

Also, traffic cameras are not allowed in Massachusetts.

Which I'm thankful for. I don't trust the local authorities with cameras when they can't get the lights to work properly in the first place. For example, see the light at Beacon and Washington. It gives a 7 second yellow to Beacon. It's the longest yellow light on earth. The correct yellow length for a 30 mph road is about 3 seconds.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

I don't trust the local authorities to know what time it is in regards to snow emergency laws and ticketing, so I REALLY don't like the thought of them using traffic cameras.

[somerfriend.livejournal.com]

OK, just position an officer there. Ideally in an unmarked vehicle.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

I'm also not a fan of officers writing tickets at unnecessarily poorly-designed lights or intersections.

[somerfriend.livejournal.com]

The lights are clearly visible. You might not have expected them to be there based on your views on rotary traffic design but they are there. Driving through poorly designed streets is a fact of life, especially in a city as old as ours. It doesn't excuse you from obeying traffic lights and putting other's physical safety at work. I truly sympathize with your anti authoritarian streak, but not putting others at risk comes before freedom to break laws we don't like in this case.

If someone goes through a red light they deserve a ticket, no reasonable person can debate that.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

I certainly can debate that.

There are very specific legal standards for the design of traffic light-controlled intersections, and for good reason.

Without commenting on the specifics of the Powderhouse rotary, since I haven't analyzed it in detail, if a light is severely misplaced, and not even close to the geometric zone where it's supposed to be according to the MUTCD, then that's a valid reason to challenge a ticket.

For a simple example, think of a stop sign behind a tree. If a reasonable person could miss seeing it, it's not fair to ticket for it. It's a little more complicated for traffic lights, since there's a cone-shaped zone where they're supposed to be. But the principle is the same.

The solution to this problem is to get a competent traffic engineer to redesign the traffic control devices. For a terribly designed intersection, writing all the tickets in the world won't solve the problem when the next driver comes along and gets confused.

[somerfriend.livejournal.com]

You're saying that any red light you think is poorly engineered you don't have to obey until the city changes it, regardless if someone is in the cross walk. That is a fundamental difference of opinion, I don't think we can reconcile our differing value systems.

[witzwurst.livejournal.com]

You're missing the nuance in several ways:

"...any red light you think is poorly engineered..." -- again, it's not a matter of opinion. There are specific, unambiguous standards that the light has to meet. It's either compliant, or it's not, and it's up to a court to decide that.
"...you don't have to obey until the city changes it..." -- no, you're still obligated to obey it to the best of your ability. The question is whether you can legally be ticketed specifically for not doing so.
"...regardless if someone is in the cross walk." -- Regardless of whether there's a red light or a green one, if there's a pedestrian in the crosswalk, you're obligated to yield to them. You could be ticketed for that.

[boblothrope.livejournal.com]

No, I'm saying once someone tells the city the intersection is dangerous because it's very poorly engineered, they should fix it rather than ticketing at it.