[identity profile] mindstalk.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] davis_square
I can understand or even support bicyclists taking a flexible attitude to many traffic laws that weren't designed for them. Slow rolling stops, sidewalks when considerate, short dashes against one-way signs given the poor design of the regional streets. Things that increase speed and convenience while not being unsafe if you're careful.

I can't think of any excuse for all the nighttime bikers without any lights, other than "my light got stolen while I parked and I have to get home", which I doubt is the usual explanation, or "my life isn't worth $30". I suspect a night biker is safer with a light and no helmet than with a helmet and no light.

Plus it's the law, and it's a sensible and non-onerous law, one I don't see reason for flouting. But maybe I'm privileged and unimaginative here. Someone want to defend the practice?
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Date: 2013-05-18 03:14 pm (UTC)
squirrelitude: (squirrel acorn nut free license)
From: [personal profile] squirrelitude
Cyclist here. I hate it too. :-(

I feel like I have to be on 110% best behavior when I'm out on the road just to make up for some of my fellow riders.

Things that really aren't excusable:

* Riding straight through a red light when there is an opposing green
* Riding at night without lights
* Sidewalk riding without yielding
* Salmon-biking (going the wrong way on a two-way street)

Things that I don't do because I don't want to set a bad example, but are either legal or can be justified under some circumstances:

* Riding on a sidewalk (legal in some areas, but *please* yield to all other sidewalk users!)
* Riding through a red light on all-way red (if it's also all-way walk, please walk your bike through the intersection, else just wait)
* Wrong way down a one-way street (this is actually legal on a couple of streets, but on other streets always pull over if a car is approaching!)

Things that I do that might be technically illegal, but no one actually cares about:

* Right turn on red when a sign forbids it -- I do this when it is clear that I will not inconvenience anybody. However, I often avoid this just to set a better example.

Unfortunately, we're probably not going to see better behavior unless the police start ticketing cyclists. I do my part in telling people off when they're doing these things, but that only does so much.
Edited Date: 2013-05-18 03:24 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-18 03:33 pm (UTC)
squirrelitude: (squirrel acorn nut free license)
From: [personal profile] squirrelitude
By the way, I wish I could tell you, "Here's what you can do to help!" Unfortunately, there's basically no way to open up a productive dialog while on the road if you're in a car, since honking just pisses off or startles people. (It can be *super loud* to cyclists, since there's no glass-and-steel sound-dampening cage.) If you can pull off a short beep when someone is doing something unsafe, I guess that's the best I can think of. :-/

From a bike, you can yell "wrong way" or "red light".

However, yelling things from the road rnus the risk of misunderstandings; one time I yelled "turn signal" to a driver, and they got out of their car and called me back. Things ended amicably, but I suspect he had thought I had called him a racial epithet. :-(
Edited Date: 2013-05-18 03:38 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-18 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] srakkt.livejournal.com
This sounds almost precisely as though I could have written it myself.

Date: 2013-05-18 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] srakkt.livejournal.com
And so does this.

Date: 2013-05-18 04:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enveri.livejournal.com
As a motorist, I appreciate you. <3

I do my best to be aware of cyclists on the road, because it's kind of terrifying to know that I'm encased in this nice, safe cage of steel and rubber and one teensy little bump could seriously injure someone. But it's supremely frustrating when I'm tootling along at 25mph and a cyclist pops up out of nowhere weaving in and out of traffic.

Or I'm about to cross an intersection and wheeee, cyclist flies through against the light. If you honk? They think you are the jerk, and no one learns anything. -.-

And can I just say that it is very bad for my blood pressure to be making a turn on a one way street and find a cyclist going the wrong way unexpectedly. C'mon guys, I have no objections to shortcuts, but be -aware- that we're not expecting you and meet us halfway!

(Standard disclaimer, I have driven in many parts of the world and have never seen drivers as blatantly lawbreaking and obtuse as in Boston)

Date: 2013-05-18 04:30 pm (UTC)
jicama: (beard)
From: [personal profile] jicama
I mostly agree, but I don't see the need to walk my bike through the intersection when I'm crossing on a walk signal. I often cross Highland on Willow during a walk signal, and figure that I'm doing traffic a favor by getting across and off onto the community path before the cars waiting at the signal need to deal with me sharing the lane with them.

Date: 2013-05-18 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] turil.livejournal.com
I'll offer a few reasons why I've not had a light when biking at night, so you can understand better, the reality that is a complicated world. :-)

1. Couldn't afford to buy one. Yes, really. I worked as a preschool teacher, was on food stamps, and seriously couldn't afford to buy anything that wasn't absolutely necessary. If you'd given me a light, I totally would have used it.

2. Had a light, but the batteries are dead. The batteries/charge doesn't last long, except with the really crappy, cheap LED ones which do nothing to actually light up the road. (This happens to me far too often, and it drives me nuts. Even my really expensive hundred and something dollar light only lasts about 1.5 hours. Which is ok for short trips, but not for longer ones.)

3. I bike in the city only, where everything is lit up like Fenway Park. You don't see anyone walking around Fenway with flashlights do you? :-) (Yes, it's still the law to have a light, but realistically, you don't need one to see or be seen in many parts of the Boston area, so many people think it would be stupid to use a light. I do now, but I didn't before I was heavily involved in the bike community, so I can see where many average folks are coming from in this case.)

4. The bike didn't come with a light. (This is more of a philosophical explaination than a reason I, personally use. But it's realistic.) I'm, unexpectedly, borrowing a bike while I'm in the area for a short time, and while I actually have a tail light on my courier bag (which is my normal bag I have with me at all times), I don't happen to have a front light with me. I don't really like the situation, but I know it's not the worst thing in the world, as I am paying extra attention to traffic in front of me that might have a harder time seeing me coming, in case I need to change course or stop to avoid a crash.)

Really, the best thing you could do is to work with the bike coalition and bike shops to make sure that all bikes either sold or rented come with lights - at least the cheap LED ones. Then make sure people have batteries by having some kind of exchange program for bike light batteries, or something. That way you eliminate most of the common reasons why people don't have, or use, lights.

Date: 2013-05-18 06:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intuition-ist.livejournal.com
The worst case of this I've ever encountered -- a cyclist dressed in black, with no lights, going down the wrong way down the one way street, well after dark. I had to blink twice - once to convince myself there was someone there, and again to believe that someone would be that uncaring of their physical well-being.

Date: 2013-05-18 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surrealestate.livejournal.com
I think it also depends on the street. IMHO, it is *always* wrong on the one-way sections of Elm St and Highland Ave in Davis Square and I consider those who ride in the street the wrong way and/or ride on the sidewalk there to be assholes. But, say, any of the many one-block one-way streets that get almost no traffic? No big deal.

Date: 2013-05-18 07:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surrealestate.livejournal.com
You're right, I should have said "pretty much always". There is pretty much nothing that is ALWAYS anything. ;)

Date: 2013-05-18 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kdsorceress.livejournal.com
I don't suggest the taped signs thing, as I know several bicyclists (myself included) who do not leave their lights attached when parking the bike. I don't want my lights to be stolen, I need those!

Date: 2013-05-18 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuth.livejournal.com
I've been looking for a source of 1) cheap lights that 2) can be attached to bicycles without tools and 3) don't use coin cells. My ideal price point is $5 - $8 per pair of lights (white front and red rear) that I can just give out to stealth cyclists at night. I can find any two of the three criteria fairly easily. In fact if I'm willing to accept coin cell lights I can get the price point down to $3 - $4 per pair which I might just do anyways. Anyone have any grand ideas?

Date: 2013-05-18 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enhf94.livejournal.com
(this is not a response to any particular post here, most of which I skimmed - but instead a thought I've been trying to express to myself for a couple of years, and will now throw into the pot.)


I'm a zero-percent bicyclist, 75% driver, and 25% walker. I am way pro-bike and I want so badly to be a full-on bike friend and advocate. I like bikes. I am happy to learn bicycle-friendly driving, recognize my driver's privilege and learn to let the privilege go for the good of all. I'd be fine if laws changed, or infrastructure changed, to be more pro-bike. I love Amsterdam.

And I also get angry when bicyclists do those activities on the list you wrote. And, heaven help me, it's hard to feel empathy toward my friends who do those things, and get honked at, and then complain about how oppressed they are.

I don't have solutions except to suggest that my friends may often be correct in whining about all the bad things that happens to bikes, they are also being ineffective. I don't know anything better except to say that it seems like the conversational zeitgeist is moving toward us-vs-them (certainly from the cabbies' perspective; I often ask them about the bike stuff as personal research - and increasingly from cycling friends, too) but I still think it could be win-win.

I agree with the poster above who suggested that real-time interventions - drivers and cyclists intervening during drives/rides - seems to be the least effective way to create positive change. When those conversations/fingers/car-whacks/yells happen, at least one person is guaranteed to feel aggrieved, and both people were interrupted from their planned mission. It's a setup for unproductive conflict.

Date: 2013-05-18 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenala.livejournal.com
One thing both cyclists and pedestrians need to be more aware of is that, from the inside of a car, sodium vapor lights are not good at illuminating things that aren't already reflective, particularly if it's raining.

(I don't have any uncorrected vision problems that I know of, either, and I have a very clean driving record. I also walk at least as much as I drive, and bike when I can.)

Date: 2013-05-18 08:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetathx1138.livejournal.com
It's pretty simple. 95% of cyclists are reasonable, normal people who just want to get where they're going in a way that works for them while respecting others.

The remaining 5% are self-centered trolls.

Date: 2013-05-18 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] georgy.livejournal.com
My husband and I play "bicyclist bingo" where we check to see which cyclists 1) aren't wearing helmets 2) have their earbuds in and, in the evening edition, 3) aren't using lights. Sadly, we spot a lot of violators.

The earbuds thing is a huge problem for me. I am a cyclist (as well as a pedestrian/driver) and it would be awesome to be able to jam out to my favorite songs while riding. But for a cyclist, your ears are your mirrors. If I can't hear, I might as well be blindfolded. And don't give me anything about low volume. You need your full hearing capacity when riding.

Date: 2013-05-18 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlecitynames.livejournal.com
I agree with this so hard. I would love to listen to music while biking, but I rely heavily on being able to hear cars coming up behind me.

Date: 2013-05-18 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlecitynames.livejournal.com
I think there have been a couple of times when I left work and it wasn't dark enough to need lights, but it was much darker by the time I got home, and it was so gradual that I didn't notice the need for lights. Many of the people I see with no lights at all are kids/teenagers, who tend to ride on the sidewalk. Also dangerous though - I've almost hit people coming my way on the sidewalk because I couldn't see them!
Edited Date: 2013-05-18 09:59 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-18 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] grapefruiteater.livejournal.com
I was a Somerville driver and pedestrian for a long time. I was *convinced* that it was just a matter of time before I would make a right on Willow from Elm and and hit someone coming down the road the wrong way on a bike—probably with earbuds, no helmet, and no lights—and end up in court being sued for all my meager assets. I don't think there's an excuse for riding the wrong way down a one-way. That end of Willow is an extreme example, because drivers can't see a thing whether they're turning from Elm or coming in "straight" from Beech, but it's just not safe, so why put yourself at risk?

Date: 2013-05-18 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlecitynames.livejournal.com
I don't really think going the wrong way down a one way is ever okay unless signs specifically say it's legal. What about when you're at the end (really the start) and a car turns to drive down the street straight at you, not expecting anyone to be coming their way? I can't even imagine how terrifying that would be to me if I were driving and that happened.

Salmon-biking makes me SO angry, especially when they're in my damn bike lane.

I am just like you - I don't do things that would set a bad example. With the exception that I will ride across a walk light if I'm coming off or going onto a sidewalk. If I'm on the road and staying there, I act as a car and wait for green. Also, I do sometimes run reds if I'm going straight at a T intersection and there are no cars entering from the right. I mainly do that at certain intersections that are difficult to navigate, such as Mass Ave at Walden St, where there's an added line of parked cars right after the light, and I suddenly have a much narrower space for riding that I can't trust the cars to my left to allow for. And I always yield to pedestrians and turning cars first. It still makes me feel uncomfortable to do that though, and I often stop only to have other people pass me on bikes.

Date: 2013-05-18 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com
Way I feel, being pro- or anti- bikes, cars, or pedestrians doesn't really make sense (and like you said makes for an us-vs-them zeitgeist). I am pro- people who obey traffic laws and pay attention to the world around them and comport themselves in a manner respectful of others' shared use of the space, and I am anti- people who don't, and the mode of transit is not relevant.
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