[identity profile] mindstalk.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] davis_square
I can understand or even support bicyclists taking a flexible attitude to many traffic laws that weren't designed for them. Slow rolling stops, sidewalks when considerate, short dashes against one-way signs given the poor design of the regional streets. Things that increase speed and convenience while not being unsafe if you're careful.

I can't think of any excuse for all the nighttime bikers without any lights, other than "my light got stolen while I parked and I have to get home", which I doubt is the usual explanation, or "my life isn't worth $30". I suspect a night biker is safer with a light and no helmet than with a helmet and no light.

Plus it's the law, and it's a sensible and non-onerous law, one I don't see reason for flouting. But maybe I'm privileged and unimaginative here. Someone want to defend the practice?

Date: 2013-05-18 03:14 pm (UTC)
squirrelitude: (squirrel acorn nut free license)
From: [personal profile] squirrelitude
Cyclist here. I hate it too. :-(

I feel like I have to be on 110% best behavior when I'm out on the road just to make up for some of my fellow riders.

Things that really aren't excusable:

* Riding straight through a red light when there is an opposing green
* Riding at night without lights
* Sidewalk riding without yielding
* Salmon-biking (going the wrong way on a two-way street)

Things that I don't do because I don't want to set a bad example, but are either legal or can be justified under some circumstances:

* Riding on a sidewalk (legal in some areas, but *please* yield to all other sidewalk users!)
* Riding through a red light on all-way red (if it's also all-way walk, please walk your bike through the intersection, else just wait)
* Wrong way down a one-way street (this is actually legal on a couple of streets, but on other streets always pull over if a car is approaching!)

Things that I do that might be technically illegal, but no one actually cares about:

* Right turn on red when a sign forbids it -- I do this when it is clear that I will not inconvenience anybody. However, I often avoid this just to set a better example.

Unfortunately, we're probably not going to see better behavior unless the police start ticketing cyclists. I do my part in telling people off when they're doing these things, but that only does so much.
Edited Date: 2013-05-18 03:24 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2013-05-18 03:33 pm (UTC)
squirrelitude: (squirrel acorn nut free license)
From: [personal profile] squirrelitude
By the way, I wish I could tell you, "Here's what you can do to help!" Unfortunately, there's basically no way to open up a productive dialog while on the road if you're in a car, since honking just pisses off or startles people. (It can be *super loud* to cyclists, since there's no glass-and-steel sound-dampening cage.) If you can pull off a short beep when someone is doing something unsafe, I guess that's the best I can think of. :-/

From a bike, you can yell "wrong way" or "red light".

However, yelling things from the road rnus the risk of misunderstandings; one time I yelled "turn signal" to a driver, and they got out of their car and called me back. Things ended amicably, but I suspect he had thought I had called him a racial epithet. :-(
Edited Date: 2013-05-18 03:38 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2013-05-18 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] srakkt.livejournal.com
This sounds almost precisely as though I could have written it myself.

Date: 2013-05-18 04:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enveri.livejournal.com
As a motorist, I appreciate you. <3

I do my best to be aware of cyclists on the road, because it's kind of terrifying to know that I'm encased in this nice, safe cage of steel and rubber and one teensy little bump could seriously injure someone. But it's supremely frustrating when I'm tootling along at 25mph and a cyclist pops up out of nowhere weaving in and out of traffic.

Or I'm about to cross an intersection and wheeee, cyclist flies through against the light. If you honk? They think you are the jerk, and no one learns anything. -.-

And can I just say that it is very bad for my blood pressure to be making a turn on a one way street and find a cyclist going the wrong way unexpectedly. C'mon guys, I have no objections to shortcuts, but be -aware- that we're not expecting you and meet us halfway!

(Standard disclaimer, I have driven in many parts of the world and have never seen drivers as blatantly lawbreaking and obtuse as in Boston)

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Date: 2013-05-18 04:30 pm (UTC)
jicama: (beard)
From: [personal profile] jicama
I mostly agree, but I don't see the need to walk my bike through the intersection when I'm crossing on a walk signal. I often cross Highland on Willow during a walk signal, and figure that I'm doing traffic a favor by getting across and off onto the community path before the cars waiting at the signal need to deal with me sharing the lane with them.

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Date: 2013-05-18 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlecitynames.livejournal.com
I don't really think going the wrong way down a one way is ever okay unless signs specifically say it's legal. What about when you're at the end (really the start) and a car turns to drive down the street straight at you, not expecting anyone to be coming their way? I can't even imagine how terrifying that would be to me if I were driving and that happened.

Salmon-biking makes me SO angry, especially when they're in my damn bike lane.

I am just like you - I don't do things that would set a bad example. With the exception that I will ride across a walk light if I'm coming off or going onto a sidewalk. If I'm on the road and staying there, I act as a car and wait for green. Also, I do sometimes run reds if I'm going straight at a T intersection and there are no cars entering from the right. I mainly do that at certain intersections that are difficult to navigate, such as Mass Ave at Walden St, where there's an added line of parked cars right after the light, and I suddenly have a much narrower space for riding that I can't trust the cars to my left to allow for. And I always yield to pedestrians and turning cars first. It still makes me feel uncomfortable to do that though, and I often stop only to have other people pass me on bikes.

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Date: 2013-05-18 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] turil.livejournal.com
I'll offer a few reasons why I've not had a light when biking at night, so you can understand better, the reality that is a complicated world. :-)

1. Couldn't afford to buy one. Yes, really. I worked as a preschool teacher, was on food stamps, and seriously couldn't afford to buy anything that wasn't absolutely necessary. If you'd given me a light, I totally would have used it.

2. Had a light, but the batteries are dead. The batteries/charge doesn't last long, except with the really crappy, cheap LED ones which do nothing to actually light up the road. (This happens to me far too often, and it drives me nuts. Even my really expensive hundred and something dollar light only lasts about 1.5 hours. Which is ok for short trips, but not for longer ones.)

3. I bike in the city only, where everything is lit up like Fenway Park. You don't see anyone walking around Fenway with flashlights do you? :-) (Yes, it's still the law to have a light, but realistically, you don't need one to see or be seen in many parts of the Boston area, so many people think it would be stupid to use a light. I do now, but I didn't before I was heavily involved in the bike community, so I can see where many average folks are coming from in this case.)

4. The bike didn't come with a light. (This is more of a philosophical explaination than a reason I, personally use. But it's realistic.) I'm, unexpectedly, borrowing a bike while I'm in the area for a short time, and while I actually have a tail light on my courier bag (which is my normal bag I have with me at all times), I don't happen to have a front light with me. I don't really like the situation, but I know it's not the worst thing in the world, as I am paying extra attention to traffic in front of me that might have a harder time seeing me coming, in case I need to change course or stop to avoid a crash.)

Really, the best thing you could do is to work with the bike coalition and bike shops to make sure that all bikes either sold or rented come with lights - at least the cheap LED ones. Then make sure people have batteries by having some kind of exchange program for bike light batteries, or something. That way you eliminate most of the common reasons why people don't have, or use, lights.

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Date: 2013-05-18 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenala.livejournal.com
One thing both cyclists and pedestrians need to be more aware of is that, from the inside of a car, sodium vapor lights are not good at illuminating things that aren't already reflective, particularly if it's raining.

(I don't have any uncorrected vision problems that I know of, either, and I have a very clean driving record. I also walk at least as much as I drive, and bike when I can.)

Date: 2013-05-19 01:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] adrian-turtle.livejournal.com
except with the really crappy, cheap LED ones which do nothing to actually light up the road.

The main value of a headlight, and the entire value of a taillight, is making your bike visible to others. Helping you see the road is a bonus.

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Date: 2013-05-19 02:55 am (UTC)
squirrelitude: (squirrel acorn nut free license)
From: [personal profile] squirrelitude
I found a perfectly good tail light in pieces on the road a couple weeks ago; I put it back together and have been waiting to find an unlit night biker to hand it to. :-)

They are surprisingly expensive -- probably overpriced, in fact.

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Date: 2013-05-18 06:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intuition-ist.livejournal.com
The worst case of this I've ever encountered -- a cyclist dressed in black, with no lights, going down the wrong way down the one way street, well after dark. I had to blink twice - once to convince myself there was someone there, and again to believe that someone would be that uncaring of their physical well-being.

Date: 2013-05-20 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 42itous.livejournal.com
I refer to those as Deathwish Bikers. I can't imagine what, besides absolute stupidity, would inspire someone to attempt suicide in that manner.

Date: 2013-05-18 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuth.livejournal.com
I've been looking for a source of 1) cheap lights that 2) can be attached to bicycles without tools and 3) don't use coin cells. My ideal price point is $5 - $8 per pair of lights (white front and red rear) that I can just give out to stealth cyclists at night. I can find any two of the three criteria fairly easily. In fact if I'm willing to accept coin cell lights I can get the price point down to $3 - $4 per pair which I might just do anyways. Anyone have any grand ideas?

Date: 2013-05-19 01:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cfox.livejournal.com
Retroreflective tape can be had in bulk for very cheap, and can be really very effective for visibility in an urban environment. I'm not sure you'd manage to get people to hold still for it, though.

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Date: 2013-05-18 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enhf94.livejournal.com
(this is not a response to any particular post here, most of which I skimmed - but instead a thought I've been trying to express to myself for a couple of years, and will now throw into the pot.)


I'm a zero-percent bicyclist, 75% driver, and 25% walker. I am way pro-bike and I want so badly to be a full-on bike friend and advocate. I like bikes. I am happy to learn bicycle-friendly driving, recognize my driver's privilege and learn to let the privilege go for the good of all. I'd be fine if laws changed, or infrastructure changed, to be more pro-bike. I love Amsterdam.

And I also get angry when bicyclists do those activities on the list you wrote. And, heaven help me, it's hard to feel empathy toward my friends who do those things, and get honked at, and then complain about how oppressed they are.

I don't have solutions except to suggest that my friends may often be correct in whining about all the bad things that happens to bikes, they are also being ineffective. I don't know anything better except to say that it seems like the conversational zeitgeist is moving toward us-vs-them (certainly from the cabbies' perspective; I often ask them about the bike stuff as personal research - and increasingly from cycling friends, too) but I still think it could be win-win.

I agree with the poster above who suggested that real-time interventions - drivers and cyclists intervening during drives/rides - seems to be the least effective way to create positive change. When those conversations/fingers/car-whacks/yells happen, at least one person is guaranteed to feel aggrieved, and both people were interrupted from their planned mission. It's a setup for unproductive conflict.

Date: 2013-05-18 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com
Way I feel, being pro- or anti- bikes, cars, or pedestrians doesn't really make sense (and like you said makes for an us-vs-them zeitgeist). I am pro- people who obey traffic laws and pay attention to the world around them and comport themselves in a manner respectful of others' shared use of the space, and I am anti- people who don't, and the mode of transit is not relevant.

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Date: 2013-05-18 08:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetathx1138.livejournal.com
It's pretty simple. 95% of cyclists are reasonable, normal people who just want to get where they're going in a way that works for them while respecting others.

The remaining 5% are self-centered trolls.

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Date: 2013-05-18 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] georgy.livejournal.com
My husband and I play "bicyclist bingo" where we check to see which cyclists 1) aren't wearing helmets 2) have their earbuds in and, in the evening edition, 3) aren't using lights. Sadly, we spot a lot of violators.

The earbuds thing is a huge problem for me. I am a cyclist (as well as a pedestrian/driver) and it would be awesome to be able to jam out to my favorite songs while riding. But for a cyclist, your ears are your mirrors. If I can't hear, I might as well be blindfolded. And don't give me anything about low volume. You need your full hearing capacity when riding.

Date: 2013-05-18 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlecitynames.livejournal.com
I agree with this so hard. I would love to listen to music while biking, but I rely heavily on being able to hear cars coming up behind me.

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Date: 2013-05-18 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlecitynames.livejournal.com
I think there have been a couple of times when I left work and it wasn't dark enough to need lights, but it was much darker by the time I got home, and it was so gradual that I didn't notice the need for lights. Many of the people I see with no lights at all are kids/teenagers, who tend to ride on the sidewalk. Also dangerous though - I've almost hit people coming my way on the sidewalk because I couldn't see them!
Edited Date: 2013-05-18 09:59 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-18 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] grapefruiteater.livejournal.com
I was a Somerville driver and pedestrian for a long time. I was *convinced* that it was just a matter of time before I would make a right on Willow from Elm and and hit someone coming down the road the wrong way on a bike—probably with earbuds, no helmet, and no lights—and end up in court being sued for all my meager assets. I don't think there's an excuse for riding the wrong way down a one-way. That end of Willow is an extreme example, because drivers can't see a thing whether they're turning from Elm or coming in "straight" from Beech, but it's just not safe, so why put yourself at risk?

Date: 2013-05-18 10:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com
Willow is an awkward example, because that tiny stretch being one-way means that you may need to go easily half a mile out of your way to obey the law on a one-mile trip, and none of the options are any good (Cherry, which is narrow and low-visibility, or Davis, which requires a lot of skill). This doesn't excuse going the wrong way down it and I would not do that myself, but I think wrong-way cycling on Willow is more symptomatic of, e.g., the *utter lack of reasonable ways to get from Ball to Porter* than anything else.

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Date: 2013-05-18 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
Years ago, I was the person you were complaining about. Not anymore. Everyone should use lights at night, please.

That said, dying or dead batteries can happen to anyone.
Edited Date: 2013-05-18 11:30 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2013-05-19 01:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cfox.livejournal.com
In comparison to helmets, low-end lights are all pretty fragile and finicky; before I upgraded to a permanently mounted system, I went through several per year of the basic CatEye brand LED lights. The mounting hardware on the light itself tends to crack, the plastic housing stops staying closed around the batteries, etc., and you can rather easily smash the whole thing. It's also not obvious to the rider if their light is off/missing, because you don't stare at your handlebars much. I think it's not a one-time "is it worth $X" calculation, but a long term "how many days will I procrastinate in fixing it when it breaks?" thing, and people are poor at assessing risk that way.

Date: 2013-05-19 03:24 am (UTC)
ceo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ceo
A thing a lot of people, pedestrians and bicyclists both, don't seem to realize is just how freaking invisible they are to cars at night. It's why I have reflective tape all over my bike.

For lights I have a flashing headlight on my helmet as well as the usual rear blinkies. This way if I see someone about to pull into my path from a side street, I simply look at them and they see me (or are temporarily blinded, which suits my purposes just as well).

Date: 2013-05-20 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 42itous.livejournal.com
Until I started driving on a regular basis, I didn't understand how poorly visible bikers are by drivers at night or in the rain. My guess is that there are a lot of people who bike and don't drive, and simply don't understand that they have to *work* to be seen. I decided a long time ago that biking in the rain on city streets is inherently unsafe and not a risk I'm willing to take. I only bike at night if I'm lit up in all directions, but even then I ride even more defensively than during the day.

I've had people who drive but don't bike ask me why bikers claim the whole lane, and when I explain about sightlines and door zones they go "Oooh! I had no idea! Now I get it." But of course one doesn't get a chance to explain, usually.

Date: 2013-05-19 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
Surprisingly, state law doesn't require a tail light, only a tail reflector. I don't see much point in reflectors, myself, and use a red blinky.

Date: 2013-05-20 06:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-chance.livejournal.com
I can't even begin to tell you how many times the only way I saw a cyclist while I was driving in a car was because of the reflector. Reflectors have saved *scores* of lives *just from me*. Even just the inset pedal reflectors can be amazing... they're close to headlight height.

A reflector is passive. You don't have to change the batteries and you don't have to remember to turn it on. And they're very, very inexpensive and as such have zero re-sale value and are almost never stolen.

Require reflectors and every bicycle has at least a base level of visibility. Require a light instead of a reflector and many bike have nothing.

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Date: 2013-05-19 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intuition-ist.livejournal.com
also, this: http://www.lightlanebike.com/FinalConcept.jpg

Date: 2013-05-20 06:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-chance.livejournal.com
Not exactly a defense of the practice, but I'll explain why I sometimes ride without my light. I don't think it's good, or even okay, but I'll explain.

My bike light cost about $300.
A $30 bike light will make the cyclist visible to cars. A $300 bike light will let you see the road, and potholes before you hit them, while you're riding 20mph. A $30 bike light needs new batteries fairly frequently. I plug my $300 bike light into the wall about once a week (I ride home after dark almost every day).

So. Here's the deal: I don't feel comfortable leaving my $300 bike light on my bike in most areas. So every time I get off my bike there's this whole multi-step process involved in stripping the light and the battery pack off the bike and carrying it with my stuff where ever I'm going. It's big and the battery is heavy.

If I'm just popping out for a quick errand in the afternoon, sometimes I leave it at home. Or I take one bike and the light is on the other bike, but there's no need to go through the whole process of swapping it over... But then, sometimes my plans change, and there I am without my light. I still have to get home. Or sometimes I work until 2am or later, and I'm le Tired. I don't feel like putting all the gear back on the bike, I just want to get home to bed. I weigh the risks of riding while tired and also less visible... But, what with being all tired, I don't exactly make the best judgment calls sometimes.

I have an excellent tail light on one of my bikes. But since I can't see it while I'm riding, I often forget to turn it on. This is also why cars automatically turn the tail lights on when you turn on the head lights. Bike don't do that. Tail lights nearly universally are either crappy at standing up to potholes and weather, OR a pain in the ass to change the batteries on (they're related issues), so when the batteries die on my tail light, it might be several weeks before I get around to changing them (in much the same way that it can take car drivers weeks to get around to changing tail light bulbs).

So, those are some of the reasons I do it.

If you ride a bike and *don't* drive you have no earthly clue how invisible you are. Really. It's *so* much easier to see the road than to be seen. And you have more of a chance to see another cyclist after dark if you're traveling a comfortable 12mph, than if you're going 40mph. I think if most cyclists had the experience of almost hitting another of our tribe while in a car, they would start wearing reflective vests more. Even when I'm riding without my headlights, I wear my vest because I've had the terror of almost killing a cyclist, and as a lifetime cyclist it scared the shit out of me.

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From: [identity profile] miss-chance.livejournal.com - Date: 2013-05-20 03:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] miss-chance.livejournal.com - Date: 2013-05-20 03:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

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