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davis_squareSo, who else here has Star tried to rip off -- or succeed in ripping off?
Today when I dropped by, there was a circular advertising $1.79/lb for boneless chicken breasts and thighs. I got to the meat aisle, and sure enough there were packages of boneless skinless chicken breasts and packages of boneless skinless chicken thighs marked right on them, with those regular printed sale stickers: regular price, $2.89/lb, sale price $1.79/lb. So I picked up four.
They rang up at the register as $2.89/lb. When I objected, the cashier argued with me. She told me that if I had a problem, I had to take it to the Customer Service desk. Which, it being after 10pm, was closed. I insisted and she called over a more senior employee, who looked that the package, and agreed, yes, the sale price was $1.79. He agreed to refund me the amount charged, and then sell me the chicken at the correct price. After about 20 minutes of farting around and waiting for another cashier's register to become available (?!), he issued the refund and rang them through again.
And this time, they came up various prices from $3.11/lb to $3.97/lb. My bill, which should have been on the order of $15 was $29.98.
At this point, a still more senior employee came over and issued me another refund, and at this point, disgusted, I left without the chicken.
That sale ended today. It was a week-long sale. Now I'm wondering: how many people paid $2.89/lb for that chicken which was advertised and labeled $1.79/lb? $1.79/lb is a pretty good deal on boneless skinless chicken! That's probably why it was on the front of the circular, above the fold. How many people showed up specifically for that chicken at that price and were charged more, and didn't notice? Or didn't notice till they got home and decided they didn't have the time or energy to do anything about it?
So I figured I'd ask here. Did anybody else experience this?
Because this isn't the first time for me at that store, when I've bought meat on sale. And from something one of the staff said, I gather it's not the first time for a lot of people.
ETA: I'm surprised that the usually well-informed denizens of Davis Square are unfamiliar with the enforcement of this law. The above described behavior is actually quite seriously illegal, and there's an entire little branch of the government for dealing with enforcement of it. There's Comm of MA law M.G.L. Chapter 24, Section 184 B, C, D and E which covers this. Enforcement is left up to the individual towns. Each town has "Department of Weights and Measures" to do that.
The Porter Square Star Market is in Cambridge. Here is the web page for the City of Cambridge Weights and Measures Department. Even more pertinently, here's the complaint form. Note that "scanner errors" is on the pulldown list.
(Should this come up for you closer to home, here's Somerville's. They don't have a form, but they have a phone number and email address. Here's Medford's Weights and Measures Dept page. Medford has a form. Why doesn't Somerville have a form? Boston's Weights and Measures Dept. Arlington's "Sealer of Weights and Measures".)
I assure you, I filed a complaint before I posted this, and had a voice mail from the appropriate official before most of you saw and responded to this.
Here's the problem: because the sale ended at midnight, the inspector -- who told me he would be headed over there today -- can't reproduce the error. He might find that the same problem exists with some other item, but he can't prove that, all last week, Star was advertising one price then charging another.
So I turn to you: anybody have a receipt for the $2.89 price and an actual pack of the chicken, still in the packaging, still with the price label on, showing the $1.79 price?
Because it seems to me if we can come up with that, we have adequate legal proof (civil cases are to "preponderance of evidence" NOT "beyond a reasonable doubt"!) for a finding that Star defrauded all customers who bought that chicken.
And the fine is $100 per item.
This isn't merely unfortunate, or frustrating. It's illegal and it's unconscionable. There are people in our community -- frankly, the ones most likely to be drawn in by a sale, and most likely to buy in quantity when offered a sale! -- who can't afford an additional $10, or $20, or $50. That comes right out their food budget.
Or put another way, while I don't suppose it's a huge number, how many, do you think, of the people who were burned by this paid with an EBT card, i.e. food stamps? Were on WIC?
(Before anyone says, "Well, the poor people are all up at Market Basket anyway": Today Market Basket's sale price on boneless skinless chicken breast is $1.99/lb: $0.20 more per pound that Star's advertised sale price. So, actually, the poor people might very well have gone to Star to take advantage of that sale.)
And if this is problem is not specific to Porter Square? If it afflicts all Star Markets? Star is the only grocery store in East Boston, one of the most impoverished neighborhoods in the area. I work not far from that Star, and when I drop in to pick something up, a majority of people ahead of me in line are using EBT cards.
Is that Star Market doing this too? Because I personally know people in East Boston who have literally not eaten for a week to feed their kids at the end of the month, waiting for the next check to come in. And the thought that those people are being ripped off this way makes my blood freeze with rage. This is literal taking food from the mouths of children stuff.
It's infuriating to me that the Porter Square Star's little accidentally-on-purpose fraud habit is so well known to the community that a lot of us have stopped shopping there. They are literally getting away with theft, by spreading it out among a large number of people, so no one person is out so much that they're motivated to make much of a stink.
Well I'm planning on making a stink about this. I'd ask you to join me in making as much stink as you can.
Yes, try to get your money back if you can, try to catch the errors before they happen, complain to management, and get your free items if you can.
But even if they DO make it right with you: REPORT THEM. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Because if the scanner is coming up with the wrong price, that means everyone behind you in line is going to get ripped off too, and not all those people will be in a position -- of time, of energy, of liberty, of knowing their rights -- to demand satisfaction before they leave the store, even if they notice. Which Star is banking that they won't.
This has to end.
The Weights and Measures Departments rely on consumer complaints to drive enforcement. So please -- please! -- file complaints every single time you catch Star's scanners doing this.
Today when I dropped by, there was a circular advertising $1.79/lb for boneless chicken breasts and thighs. I got to the meat aisle, and sure enough there were packages of boneless skinless chicken breasts and packages of boneless skinless chicken thighs marked right on them, with those regular printed sale stickers: regular price, $2.89/lb, sale price $1.79/lb. So I picked up four.
They rang up at the register as $2.89/lb. When I objected, the cashier argued with me. She told me that if I had a problem, I had to take it to the Customer Service desk. Which, it being after 10pm, was closed. I insisted and she called over a more senior employee, who looked that the package, and agreed, yes, the sale price was $1.79. He agreed to refund me the amount charged, and then sell me the chicken at the correct price. After about 20 minutes of farting around and waiting for another cashier's register to become available (?!), he issued the refund and rang them through again.
And this time, they came up various prices from $3.11/lb to $3.97/lb. My bill, which should have been on the order of $15 was $29.98.
At this point, a still more senior employee came over and issued me another refund, and at this point, disgusted, I left without the chicken.
That sale ended today. It was a week-long sale. Now I'm wondering: how many people paid $2.89/lb for that chicken which was advertised and labeled $1.79/lb? $1.79/lb is a pretty good deal on boneless skinless chicken! That's probably why it was on the front of the circular, above the fold. How many people showed up specifically for that chicken at that price and were charged more, and didn't notice? Or didn't notice till they got home and decided they didn't have the time or energy to do anything about it?
So I figured I'd ask here. Did anybody else experience this?
Because this isn't the first time for me at that store, when I've bought meat on sale. And from something one of the staff said, I gather it's not the first time for a lot of people.
ETA: I'm surprised that the usually well-informed denizens of Davis Square are unfamiliar with the enforcement of this law. The above described behavior is actually quite seriously illegal, and there's an entire little branch of the government for dealing with enforcement of it. There's Comm of MA law M.G.L. Chapter 24, Section 184 B, C, D and E which covers this. Enforcement is left up to the individual towns. Each town has "Department of Weights and Measures" to do that.
The Porter Square Star Market is in Cambridge. Here is the web page for the City of Cambridge Weights and Measures Department. Even more pertinently, here's the complaint form. Note that "scanner errors" is on the pulldown list.
(Should this come up for you closer to home, here's Somerville's. They don't have a form, but they have a phone number and email address. Here's Medford's Weights and Measures Dept page. Medford has a form. Why doesn't Somerville have a form? Boston's Weights and Measures Dept. Arlington's "Sealer of Weights and Measures".)
I assure you, I filed a complaint before I posted this, and had a voice mail from the appropriate official before most of you saw and responded to this.
Here's the problem: because the sale ended at midnight, the inspector -- who told me he would be headed over there today -- can't reproduce the error. He might find that the same problem exists with some other item, but he can't prove that, all last week, Star was advertising one price then charging another.
So I turn to you: anybody have a receipt for the $2.89 price and an actual pack of the chicken, still in the packaging, still with the price label on, showing the $1.79 price?
Because it seems to me if we can come up with that, we have adequate legal proof (civil cases are to "preponderance of evidence" NOT "beyond a reasonable doubt"!) for a finding that Star defrauded all customers who bought that chicken.
And the fine is $100 per item.
This isn't merely unfortunate, or frustrating. It's illegal and it's unconscionable. There are people in our community -- frankly, the ones most likely to be drawn in by a sale, and most likely to buy in quantity when offered a sale! -- who can't afford an additional $10, or $20, or $50. That comes right out their food budget.
Or put another way, while I don't suppose it's a huge number, how many, do you think, of the people who were burned by this paid with an EBT card, i.e. food stamps? Were on WIC?
(Before anyone says, "Well, the poor people are all up at Market Basket anyway": Today Market Basket's sale price on boneless skinless chicken breast is $1.99/lb: $0.20 more per pound that Star's advertised sale price. So, actually, the poor people might very well have gone to Star to take advantage of that sale.)
And if this is problem is not specific to Porter Square? If it afflicts all Star Markets? Star is the only grocery store in East Boston, one of the most impoverished neighborhoods in the area. I work not far from that Star, and when I drop in to pick something up, a majority of people ahead of me in line are using EBT cards.
Is that Star Market doing this too? Because I personally know people in East Boston who have literally not eaten for a week to feed their kids at the end of the month, waiting for the next check to come in. And the thought that those people are being ripped off this way makes my blood freeze with rage. This is literal taking food from the mouths of children stuff.
It's infuriating to me that the Porter Square Star's little accidentally-on-purpose fraud habit is so well known to the community that a lot of us have stopped shopping there. They are literally getting away with theft, by spreading it out among a large number of people, so no one person is out so much that they're motivated to make much of a stink.
Well I'm planning on making a stink about this. I'd ask you to join me in making as much stink as you can.
Yes, try to get your money back if you can, try to catch the errors before they happen, complain to management, and get your free items if you can.
But even if they DO make it right with you: REPORT THEM. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Because if the scanner is coming up with the wrong price, that means everyone behind you in line is going to get ripped off too, and not all those people will be in a position -- of time, of energy, of liberty, of knowing their rights -- to demand satisfaction before they leave the store, even if they notice. Which Star is banking that they won't.
This has to end.
The Weights and Measures Departments rely on consumer complaints to drive enforcement. So please -- please! -- file complaints every single time you catch Star's scanners doing this.
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no subject
Date: 2014-03-28 09:29 pm (UTC)I had not realized until this thread that the law requires them to fix it by providing one item for free, rather than just by selling the thing at the right price in the end. And that asking for that item for free does not just benefit *me* but punishes the store so that they have a vested interest in their scanning system not continuing to screw up.
But I am confused about *when* that recourse is supposed to happen. Do they need to provide the correct price for future items, *and* credit me for one free item, if the item scans wrong and I call them on it immediately, *before* my transaction is complete? Or is it only if they total up the receipt and I pay for it first and then say "losers, this was on sale and you charged me too much for it, see here on the receipt! see here on the sign! That's illegal and here is what you have to do about it"
I feel like they ought to get a chance to correct it before getting dinged -- in other words, it seems to me like they haven't actually charged me the wrong price until they hit "finish" and take my money.
If I tell them immediately, and they delete the item and try again until they can get it to display the right price, have they done their job and don't owe me a free whatever-rang-up-wrong?
Alternately, if I don't tell them immediately but wait to make sure they don't fix it on their own, and then tell them after the transaction is fully rung up and paid for that they did it wrong, then do they owe me a free whatever-rang-up-wrong?
On the one hand, I want them to have a real incentive to make their scanning system not cheat people, and realistically if the software scanner did it wrong it's not like the cashier is actually going to notice when they finish completing the transaction. On the other hand, it seems weird that they can't make temporary mistakes that are not "software did not register sale item" and are "person keyed in manual code wrong" without being able to fix those mistakes before they finish the transaction.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-29 05:44 pm (UTC)According to the law (see photo of sign below!), the moment the price comes up wrong on the scanner, you are entitled to this recourse.
I feel like they ought to get a chance to correct it before getting dinged -- in other words, it seems to me like they haven't actually charged me the wrong price until they hit "finish" and take my money.
But the crime isn't just actually charging the wrong price. It's trying to sneak one by the customer in the first place. It's putting customers in the position of having to take their time and effort to argue for what they should expect by right before the law all along. That's why there are these very strict laws about honesty in pricing.
The technical term for advertising one price and then when the buyer tries to complete the transaction at that price, are told they can't buy that thing at that price, they can only buy something else at a higher price -- that's "bait and switch". It's illegal because luring someone into your store under false pretenses is itself a wrong. This is a very close cousin to bait and switch: they're advertising one price to lure customers into the store, and then tricking them into paying more.
If I tell them immediately, and they delete the item and try again until they can get it to display the right price, have they done their job and don't owe me a free whatever-rang-up-wrong?
Probably not. If the problem is that the scanner doesn't recognize sale prices, that's not an error on the cashier's part; just because they override the price in the database manually just for your purchase doesn't mean anything is fixed.
If anything, it most likely means that they've bought your silence so they can go on and scam the next people in line. I mean, is the result of this manual correction that a manager is called over and notified there's a critical problem with the prices in the database which needs to be fixed immediately? No? Well.
[more]
no subject
Date: 2014-03-29 05:44 pm (UTC)On the one hand, I want them to have a real incentive to make their scanning system not cheat people, and realistically if the software scanner did it wrong it's not like the cashier is actually going to notice when they finish completing the transaction. On the other hand, it seems weird that they can't make temporary mistakes that are not "software did not register sale item" and are "person keyed in manual code wrong" without being able to fix those mistakes before they finish the transaction.
There's nothing temporary about "software did not register sale item". If it came up wrong for you, it's coming up wrong for everyone. Databases and software don't fix their own errors. If someone with the authority to change the price in the database doesn't do so, or if there's something wrong with the physical scanner such that it can't read a ticket (which is NOT what I think is happening here -- the sale part of the ticket didn't have a barcode that I saw, and no machine-readable parts), that will persist indefinitely. It's basically permanent until fixed. That is part of why there is so little tolerance for these hijinks in the law.
In the law as written, "person keyed in manual code wrong" isn't included. They don't have to give you a concession if the cashier enters some other product. That's a (presumably) honest error, and it results in the wrong item (with its (presumably) correct price) coming up, not the wrong price. They do get to manually correct that for free. Because it is a temporary error.
if it helps, that free item? It isn't punishment for the store. It's meant as incentive to the consumer to monitor the store's prices. It's a reward for you. And enlightened stores see it as a thank you gift: if you find a pricing error in their scanner database and bring it to their attention, you just provided them with valuable QA which allows them to protect themselves from the real punishment. Which is the $100 per item fine the can be assessed by the Dept of Weights and Measures. More enlightened stores have an official policy of gratitude because you just did them a serious favor.
Do I think Star employees will see it that way and behave that way? No, history doesn't suggest they will.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-31 12:14 pm (UTC)Thank you for clarifying it.