Empty Storefronts

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

Hey everyone,

I'm a part-owner of Magpie in Davis Sq. I'm also just a big fan of Davis Square -- I lived there for many years but recently moved to the other side of the river. I come back to Davis a lot because there are great coffee shops to meet friends at or do some work at or read a book at... and I love the plaza area in the summer... to poke around in McIntyre and Moore... and so on...

I've been to the last two Davis Square Task Force meetings and I've been thinking more and more that it would be so great if "we the people" who live in or love to visit or own a business in Davis Sq could do something to help determine what goes into the empty storefronts rather than just waking up one day and seeing a sign for who know's what is "coming soon." I know the subject has come up at the last two meetings as to how and whether it would even be possible to proactively attract businesses that people would like to see in Davis but we never really got to talking about this in any depth.

So, I just have a few questions: What storefronts are still empty at this point? I've heard the Buck-a-Book is going to be an Italian restaurant (and the back of Buck-a-Book is now a Planned Parenthood express center.) So does this mean Disc Diggers is now the only storefront still open? And does anyone remember approximately what the square footage of that space is?

Again, I don't know what *can* be done to try to attract businesses that people would like to see but I was thinking maybe we could open up a discussion here and then maybe report the findings to Rebekah Gewirtz at the next Task Force meeting. Maybe she'd have some ideas like coming up with a "fact sheet" with the demographics of the area that could be sent to businesses whom many people like the idea of?

OK. Sorry for such a long message! Just thought it might be interesting to get some focused discussion going!

Leah

EDITED TO ADD: Based on responses to this, here's a list of storefronts that are still empty:
1. space next to Au Bon Pain where the T-Mobile used to be
2. Mini-Mart next to Buck-a-Book
3. former home of Disc Diggers
4. the bottom floor of the Citizens Bank building

Comments

[cemeterygates.livejournal.com]

The space next to Au Bon Pain where the T-Mobile used to be is still open. I'm not sure the square footage, but it's about the size of the Disc Diggers space.

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

I didn't want to bog down the first message but here are a couple of thoughts I had for what would be good for the Disc Diggers space (or any other empty storefronts that I'm forgetting right now).

From being at the Task Force meetings, I know that people are concerned about businesses in the area that might attract more cars. So businesses where you take away lots of items or that sell heavy items would not be ideal.

So here's a thought. What about a book store that has a great magazine selection and a great selection of new books (so it wouldn't compete with McIntyre & Moore) and maybe even a small cafe area too? Sort of like the vibe of Trident on Newbury St.

The other thought I had is how about another straight up coffee shop? Seems to me that Davis Sq is *the* place to meet up with friends for coffee. It's impossible to get a table at Diesel and Someday on weekends. And on some weeknights they are also full because various of groups meeting up there.

[ron_newman]

While I'd love to have a bookstore, Porter Square Books already fills the niche you suggest. I suspect their profit margin is not high, and I'd hate to put them out of business by bringing in a competitor.

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Yeah. I definitely see your point. But Porter Sq has a huge residential community and so does Davis Sq. I wonder if two different bookstores could be sustained by each servicing their own surrounding residents?

[enochs-fable.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I doubt it. Porter is just too close. I mean, 5 minuts on the T and you're there.

I'd love to see some sort of space (bakery/cafe?) with more "hang-out" seating -- sort of like the Danish Pastry House way down near Tufts.

More coffee?

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

If you can't get a table at Someday or Diesel, try Starbucks, Au Bon Pain, O'Naturals, Bhoja, or any of the other coffee shop/cafes I'm not thinking of.

Personally, I'd love to see an organic/natural foods grocery (with cafe!), but I don't expect one to show up just cuz I'd like to see it. :)

Re: More coffee?

[abilouise.livejournal.com]

In a small way back around 2000-ish, Celia's fresh market & deli tried to fill this niche and did not find it profitable, so now we have Namaskar.

Re: More coffee?

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

Yep. I frequently cite Celia's when I mention this topic, because I think Celia's failed in large part because it killed itself. Although Celia's was primarily a deli/salad bar place, with the grocery part a small sideline. It was a great place to pick up food for dinner on the way home, but for lord knows what reason, they closed before most of the working types who wanted to shop there were even back in the neighborhood. I can't think of how many evenings I would have killed for a fresh, organic salad from their bar, but they were already closed.

I lamented that there was no way they'd succeed with that plan, and indeed, it didn't take long for them to fold. :(

Re: More coffee?

[dominika-kretek.livejournal.com]

Starbucks, Au Bon Pain, and O'Naturals do not offer what the Someday and the Diesel do. Why, I can't say, but they just don't.

[ron_newman]

The Citizens Bank building has a large empty space fronting on the street. It was built for offices, but is currently for lease as retail space. It could easily be subdivided into multiple retail stores.

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

That's a neat idea. I forget what's going on there now but I recall that there was a series of interesting shops under the Healthworks in Porter (like Otro Lado, a pottery shop, etc). Could be interesting to have something like that in that building.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

It's currently sitting empty. They were partway through the work of dividing the space in two for (I believe) two restaurants that may or may not have been tied together, when that fell through (from what I've heard) because of issues with the building not being properly set up to house a restaurant kitchen - ventilation issues or something - and the costs to fix that being prohibitive.

(I work in the building, and occasionally inquire with the building manager, but haven't heard any news in a while.)

[ron_newman]

Also, neighbors behind the Citizens Bank building objected to proposals for restaurants there. They claimed that there is a rodent problem in their neighborhood.

[larksdream]

That's a good idea! Personally, I'd love a Trader Joe's, though I don't think there's a space left that's big enough...

[joyfulkel.livejournal.com]

that would RULE!

or the above mentioned natural food store
oooh oooh...could we get a harvest, please?

i'm a member but i'm just too lazy to drive all the way to central for groceries now that i dont live next to JP.

[ron_newman]

The Mini-Mart next to Buck-a-Book is also empty. There is currently a wall separating the two spaces; I don't know if it is load-bearing, or can be removed.

[two-stabs.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the fellow who sleeps in there? We exchanged glances once when I was passing by, but I just gave him a wave and he stopped looking as nervous.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

Back when the plan was for 7-11 to take the space, I was told they were going to use both the B-a-B and the Mini-Mart, so they must have planned to remove the wall.

Art Space

[girlsnqueers.livejournal.com]

My own preference would be for some kind of art space--with food and drink if that's what it took to make the space work. I read in the Globe that Somerville has a higher percentage of artists than any other part of the Greater Boston area. It's stupid that in Davis Square the place in our town that is most accessible by public transportation and that has a huge amount of foot traffic there isn't a place where local visual artists, filmmakers, musicians, spoken word artists and others can put on shows that aren't an afterthought (I love the art at Diesel, but only members of the featured artist's immediate family go to that place just to look at what's on the walls).

Re: Art Space

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

Also very interesting! There is of course the question of an arts-related endeavor being able to afford rent right in the square but brainstorming any and all ideas is very valuable I think.

Who or what groups might be worth contacting to plant a seed with? I know that the Zeitgest was recently looking to branch out into another location in Inman Sq. I wonder if they are wedded to Inman? It also might be worth contacting the Somerville Arts Council to see if they happen to have any desires to start a project like this?

I'll happily collect any and all leads people have for this idea or any others that seem to be generating interest and bring them to the next Task Force meeting.

Re: Art Space

[girlsnqueers.livejournal.com]

Zeitgeist is moving to 186 Hampshire (where New Words used to be) on March 15. I read an article that said they were also scoping out a space in East Cambridge. But I don't want a Zeitgeist-like space where performers have to pay to perform. The venue that is taking over Zeitgeist's old space has the same deal. This policy ensures that neither one of them will ever have decent music on a regular basis. People who spend their time and money working on their art so that they're actually good at it rarely have the means to also pay for the curator's space, unless the artist in question is a trust-fund baby. If Somerville artists had the money to rent venue space, we'd all be taking over empty churches, yoga studios or The Aquarium each Friday and Saturday night.

Re: Art Space

[xjustquietx.livejournal.com]

I'm down with an art space. Someone mentioned a gallery near O'Naturals, but the last time I passed by there I didn't see anything. I've always wondered if there was a crit group in this area.

Anyway, an old friend of mine owns a gallery down at 450 Harrison Street. I could ask him how he got started - the process, the pitfalls, etc.

Re: Art Space

[girlsnqueers.livejournal.com]

The gallery in question is in back of O'Naturals. I checked them out during Open Studios. They had decent art and excellent homemade cookies but the space is quite obviously a small converted garage.

Re: Art Space

[dominika-kretek.livejournal.com]

I second this!

Re: Art Space

[ron_newman]

the one-story 'Dover Plaza' building behind the Somerville Theatre used to contain Bershad, which was an architecture firm's office by day and an art gallery by night. It's been gone for years, but for some reason they still have a website.

[two-stabs.livejournal.com]

I jam in the basement of Disc Diggers with my friends, don't put anything there or I won't be able to play music. =(

Jam

[reed-davis.livejournal.com]

Tell J I say hi!

P.S.: To Find Other Somerville Artists

[girlsnqueers.livejournal.com]

There's a yahoogroup of Somerville artists that claims over a thousand members. It is also moderated by The Somerville Arts Council. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/somartscouncil (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/somartscouncil).
You have to join to post.

[catalyst.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking more and more that it would be so great if "we the people" who live in or love to visit or own a business in Davis Sq could do something to help determine what goes into the empty storefronts
     well, uh, we can't, and i'm not sure why you think we might or should. if you want to take the business risk on yourself, you're more then welcome to finance the rent payments for bob's underwater basket weaving academy or whatever.

     for myself, even if i had the power to do that (lemme hear ya reprazent, arlington! where you at, burma?), i wouldn't use it. the criterion of "what serves people's actual needs" is not the same as either (1) what makes for an impassioned editorial in some neighborhood paper nobody reads, or (2) what i, personally, think would be cool. it's exactly because of attempts to overmanage zoning (which are particular to massachusetts' political philosophy) that rent prices are so high that we're losing population (also, charmingly, unique to massachusetts).

[girlsnqueers.livejournal.com]

The reason people who live in a neighborhood need to have a say in who occupies their storefronts can be seen in the storefront history of Harvard and Central Squares. Short-sighted landlords rent to businesses like cell-phone shops, which not only add nothing to the neighborhood but also quickly go out of business because the company that owns the shop offers special incentives to prospective customers to buy their phones and other services online. So then another empty storefront joins the rest. And the landlord thinks, "If only I could interest another big-name cell phone provider. They were willing to pay through the nose!" One of the empty storefronts in Davis was last a T-Mobile store. Quelle surprise.

Also please note that the only reason that Diesel exists is because a lot of people including me signed the petition that supported their opening back in the late nineties. Other folks were apparently concerned that the business would attract too much traffic and an unsavory element (because of the pool tables!). At least those reasons were their stated ones.

[catalyst.livejournal.com]

The reason people who live in a neighborhood need to have a say
     "a say"? until one has put their rent money where their mouth is, what does that mean, exactly? signing a petition asking a landlord to please do something as a favor isn't having "a say". if, on the other hand, you mean that some sort of local government beauracracy should have veto power on all tenants, then in addition to the dicey ethical problems that presents[1], i refer you to my earlier comments on the catastrophic destruction this tendency has wrought on massachusett's real estate market. it is unaffordable to live in boston exactly because there's so many layers of rich yuppies trying to preserve the "character" of their neighborhoods, to the direct harm, each and every time, of the middle class and the poor.

Short-sighted landlords rent to businesses like cell-phone shops, which not only add nothing to the neighborhood but also quickly go out of business because the company that owns the shop offers special incentives to prospective customers to buy their phones and other services online. So then another empty storefront joins the rest.
     uh, so what you're saying is that when landlords make poor business decisions that don't suit the needs of the community, they don't make money, and they're forced to change tactics until they find a tenant who *does* have something people want to patronize?

     and that allowing these failed experiments results, over time, in a neighborhood that sells people more of what they want and less of what they don't want?

     hmm...where have i heard of this concept before...

[1] didn't we all agree, just recently, that eminent domain blows? what gives the government the right to decide what somebody can do with a building the bought with their own money, or worse, erected? does government somehow have a right to dictate this to every landlord/homeowner everywhere, or only in random, capricious, circumstances? and why does some yuppy's desire not to have to see a chain store near their home outweigh the landlord's right to make a living?

[girlsnqueers.livejournal.com]

Landlords keep making this same error over and over again. If they keep lose tenants they just sell the building at a tidy profit. Only in your mind am I suggesting eminent domain. Trial and error has proven that people go to places like Davis Square to patronize unique businesses (often locally run) that they can't find at the mall. Look at the long-lasting businesses in Central and Harvard Square: Passim, Hartnett's, 1369, Cambridge Center for Adult Education, Harvest, The Middle East: they all attract people into the neighborhood who wouldn't have a reason to go there otherwise, people who then patronize other businesses in the area. Neighborhood zoning boards need to take info like this into account.

[catalyst.livejournal.com]

Landlords keep making this same error over and over again. If they keep lose tenants they just sell the building at a tidy profit.
     sometimes that's true. but what do you think would be the end result of that? entrepeneurs don't sit around all day thinking up ways to throw away their money on projects that will piss off the general populace.

     anyway, the lesson to be taken from failure is that it's very difficult for even a professional with a strong vested interest to figure out what kind of businesses will succeed. do you really think, therefore, that you or i or any of our neighbors are somehow able to judge better?

Trial and error has proven that people go to places like Davis Square to patronize unique businesses (often locally run) that they can't find at the mall.
     great! if that's true, then there's nothing for you (or i, since i dislike chains too) to worry about either way!

     unfortunately, in reality, the desire of trust-fund kiddies to buy knicknacks from boutiques sometimes conflicts with the desire of the poor to buy affordable clothes for their children...and big-box stores *are* ugly. that, i believe, is what most people call "civic pride".

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

Jeez catalyst -- what's with the crankiness?

First of all, you say "if you want to take the business risk on yourself, you're more then welcome to finance the rent payments for bob's underwater basket weaving academy or whatever." I don't know how you missed it but I state in the very first sentence of my post that I have already in fact opened a business in Davis Sq.

Secondly, I really don't see how it could possibly hurt to try and be a little proactive about what businesses go into the empty storefronts. It might not to a lick of good but then again it might. Just look at the recent situation with Quizno's and the Disc Diggers space. If we all just sat back and did nothing, Quizno's might very well be there right now.

And I think that just because a business is approached about coming to Davis Square doesn't mean they'll just jump up and do it if it's they don't think it's economically viable.

[catalyst.livejournal.com]

Jeez catalyst -- what's with the crankiness?
     oh, calm yourself. if you can't deal with honest disagreement, don't put things on teh internets.

I don't know how you missed it but I state in the very first sentence of my post that I have already in fact opened a business in Davis Sq.
     yup, and that gives you a say in what happens to that business. note that we weren't talking about your business, but rather businesses that you do not own.

Secondly, I really don't see how it could possibly hurt to try and be a little proactive about what businesses go into the empty storefronts.
     yes, i heard you the first time. that's why i outlined how it could possibly hurt in my responses to you and girlsnqueers.

[chumbolly.livejournal.com]

Uh, catalyst, free market (love it!) and all that, good points all. When overly protectionist nimby-types shut out uses for real estate (see what almost happened to the Armory on Highland), it gets my undies in a bunch, too, but I don't think that's what magpie_leah is getting at.

I'm not a business owner or a commercial landlord, but it seems to me that it is probably much easier for a company like Quizno's to get a lease and set up shop. Mama Quiznos has lots of assets so its an easy risk for a landlord to let space to it. It's a big risk to rent out to someone like Diesel, or Magpie, because initially they're an unknown with probably very little in the way of assets that can guarantee payment of a 5 or 10 year lease. So, the playing field is not equal for reasons that make sense.

Now, for purposes of this discussion, lets presume that small, independent shops make for a more interesting neighborhood. They have things you likely can't get elsewhere and their owners, as magpie_leah has aptly demonstrated, give a damn about the neighborhood. (Note, if Store24_Steve makes an appearance on this board, I'll shut up.) You may disagree about the inherent value of independent stores, but I doubt most on this board would given that we all pay the Hip Tax to live in Davis rather than getting chain-store convenience in Framingham. So, how to bring in more independent shops? Get involved in community meetings and show that demand exists for non-chain stores. Encourage landlords to think outside the box. Actively discourage blandness. Do what magpie-leah is doing. We're not talking about creating the Central Directorate of Neighborhood Worthiness (okay, maybe some of us are) but rather, just taking an interest. It's called a community, on your on its bulletin board.

[catalyst.livejournal.com]

I'm not a business owner or a commercial landlord, but it seems to me that it is probably much easier for a company like Quizno's to get a lease and set up shop. It's a big risk to rent out to someone like Diesel, or Magpie, because initially they're an unknown with probably very little in the way of assets that can guarantee payment of a 5 or 10 year lease.
     that's a good point, but the flip side to that is that, in the event that it all goes belly-up, the chain that bought into a 10-year contract they only used 3 years of is out for a great deal more money then the tenant living month-to-month. the independent business, therefore, has a higher probability of failure but a lower risk of *catstrophic* failure, which means it is commisserately more likely to incorporate in the first place. also, if it's really true that independent businesses have the potential to be more appealing at the top end than chains (as everyone seems to be convinced), then a rational landlord has a choice between stocks and bonds, between long-term growth and short-term stability. not everyone opts for stability in that circumstance.

We're not talking about creating the Central Directorate of Neighborhood Worthiness (okay, maybe some of us are) but rather, just taking an interest
     there's nothing wrong with shooting the shit, but i do think folks need to think about means when they start talking about actually changing things. you can either have a toothless neighborhood association or one that actually tries to enforce things with laws; the former is pointless (if you want to send irate letters to landlords that they'll ignore, you can do that easily on your own) and the latter is usually a significant force for harm.

Why is that good?

[mjperson.livejournal.com]

"Just look at the recent situation with Quizno's and the Disc Diggers space. If we all just sat back and did nothing, Quizno's might very well be there right now."

I'd prefer a Quizno's right there in the square to an empty (and therefore useless to me) Disc Diggers. If I could just replace that McDonalds with a Burger King, then the square would finally be complete.

Re: Why is that good?

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

Would you prefer to see an independent business there rather than a Quizno's?

I don't know how much significance this has to anyone here but at the Davis Square Task force meeting a straw poll was taken and nobody raised their hands in favor of Quizno's, a few people abstained, and everyone else raise their hands in opposition to Quiznos. Some reasons cited by the attendees were, fast food contributes more litter in the area, the potential for more rodent problems, odor issues for surrounding businesses, and that the residents would prefer that Davis Sq have more independent businesses and fewer franchises.

Re: Why is that good?

[mjperson.livejournal.com]

"Would you prefer to see an independent business there rather than a Quizno's?"

Well, I don't know. Depends on the business. If it's an independent sub shop, I'd have to taste their subs first.

How do you feel about the Subway? Is that an independent business? Having talked to the guy who opened it and chatted with his wife while waiting for my sub, I can tell you they aren't part of a giant multi-national conspiracy. They are totally independent entrepreneurs probably doomed to failure since people in Davis don't seem to want them there. I make a point of getting something there when I can, 'cause I feel bad for them, and I like their subs.

The reasons you cited from the meeting sound good: "odors, litter, rodents". All stuff I'd be very wary about and would want to think on carefully when considering a new business. What that has to do with Quizno's being a national chain rather than a local sub-making-prodigy is beyond me though.

Re: Subway

[ron_newman]

If the Subway fails it probably won't be because of hostility to chains, but because of location and competition. It's at the far edge of the square, away from most of the foot traffic. Unlike the Bertucci's that it replaced, it doesn't offer a product sufficiently distinct from what's available in the busy commercial part of the square.

Starbucks seems to be doing just fine despite, or maybe even because of, competition from Diesel and Someday within a stone's throw.

Re: Why is that good?

[ron_newman]

The reason that Quizno's came before the Task Force and official city boards at all, is that the zoning law considers retail and restaurant to be separate use categories. Quizno's might actually be yet a different category, fast-food take-out.

If a retail store doesn't have enough parking, it can be replaced "by right" with another retail store that also doesn't have enough parking. But turning it into a restaurant requires a special permit or variance, which is when community input becomes important.

[commodorevic.livejournal.com]

Anit-zoning? how very Texan of you!

[commodorevic.livejournal.com]

Personally, I cannot wait until Davis Square has a tasty strip joint and a 24 hour gun store.