[identity profile] cemeterygates.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] davis_square
I think that the Somerville News piece about the recent MS-13 arrest did an unusually good job depicting the grey area of morality that is so often ignored by the media in their coverage of criminals. I know that such an opinion is commonly viewed by the masses as bleeding-heart, or liberal-guilt, or what have you, but I can honestly say I am proud to be part of a community that recognizes the human side of all people, and I feel this article is an excellent example of that. I do not know specifically what actions Morales was responsible for as a gangster, and I do not question that MS-13 is a very powerful and dangerous entity; but because of this article perhaps a few more people also reflect on the fact that no-one is only a thug.

I would welcome your thoughts.

Date: 2007-08-30 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ruxxell.livejournal.com
wtf is ms-13

Date: 2007-08-30 03:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firstfrost.livejournal.com
If you change your "a ref" tag to "a href" than the link should work. The article is here (http://somervillenews.typepad.com/the_somerville_news/2007/08/feds-raid-local.html) .

Date: 2007-08-30 03:41 pm (UTC)
ifotismeni: (journalism)
From: [personal profile] ifotismeni
you know it's funny, before news of the bust happened i didn't even know ms-13 existed up here, i thought it was a pretty much california-only phenomenon.

but yea, that article's good journalism, hands down. showing the impact of a bust like this is really critical for a strong local story like this. kudos to the reporter.

Date: 2007-08-30 03:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] derekp.livejournal.com
This is a horrible report, really. It's nice that they showed that Morales was a human being and didn't murder EVERYONE he knew, but perhaps the reporter could have done a google search for his name and come across his WANTED poster on the FBI website.

"He has a long criminal history including several assaults, burglary, narcotics transportation, and domestic violence."

"Robert Morales is wanted for the alleged murder of two men and the attempted murder of a woman in Los Angeles, California. On July 31, 2000, Morales allegedly shot and killed a man waiting at a bus stop. On November 9, 2000, Morales allegedly shot and killed a fellow MS-13 gang member, and fired several shots at the victim's girlfriend."

I'd be crying if I were about to go to prison for the rest of my life too...

Date: 2007-08-30 03:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] derekp.livejournal.com
And my point is, that any reporter worth his salt would have included his crimes in the report.

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From: [personal profile] spatch - Date: 2007-08-30 04:15 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [personal profile] ron_newman - Date: 2007-08-30 04:37 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-08-30 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] excursively.livejournal.com
Who's Robert Morales? The story refers to "Henry Antonio Morales".

Date: 2007-08-30 06:19 pm (UTC)

Date: 2007-08-30 04:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
If this person was in fact guilty of a crime, the Somerville police should have arrested him, and charged him, and turned him over to the criminal justice system for trial. If there was not enough evidence to do this, the federal immigration thugs had no business barging into our city.

Date: 2007-08-30 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] julishka.livejournal.com
if he was guilty of a federal crime, the feds have every right to "barge into our city" and arrest him. different jurisdictions, different law enforcement people. they're not required to talk to the police regarding an ongoing case pre or post 9/11. there's always been that divide.

Date: 2007-08-30 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] androidqueen.livejournal.com
I still don't understand why they felt the need to check everyone else's immigration status. Was there some evidence that there were illegal aliens working for that company?

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Date: 2007-08-30 09:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] srakkt.livejournal.com
"If this person was in fact guilty of a crime"

Nobody is arrested because they are guilty, in our system. People are arrested because there is enough evidence to allege that they *may* be guilty. This is an important distinction to make. It protects us all, in that it guarantees that we are assumed innocent until it is proved otherwise in a court of law, but it also means that unless we expect guilty criminals to turn themselves in and peacefully await trial, that people who've not yet been proved guilty get arrested. It's not perfect, but it's what we've got.

It occurs to me that I may be getting needlessly pedantic, and just misunderstood your phrasing. Eeek. Sorry.

Date: 2007-08-30 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
My wording was sloppy, I agree. The main point is that if he's suspected of a violent crime, and there's enough evidence to prosecute, that's what he should have been arrested for. There is no need for ICE to be involved at all.

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From: [identity profile] srakkt.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-08-30 09:20 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-08-30 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
Also the top story in today's printed Somerville Journal: Feds swoop down and arrest alleged gang members, spread fear among area immigrants

Have any of your friends and neighbors been harassed or taken away this week? If so, please comment here. We need to get a full picture of what the Feds did in our city.

Date: 2007-08-30 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] androidqueen.livejournal.com
Okay, so regardless of my own feelings on the situation, can you really start out an article with the sentence:

Civil rights violations are being alleged as a terrorized immigrant community reacts to the federal raid immigration authorities said was a sweep for gang members on Tuesday.

And claim to be reporting unbiased news?

Date: 2007-08-30 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
I see what you're saying, but I feel proud to live in a city where such news is reported from the (immigrant) residents' point of view rather than that of the federal thugs.

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From: [identity profile] androidqueen.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-08-30 08:02 pm (UTC) - Expand

Maybe they should get legal

From: [identity profile] jokabri.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-08-31 02:59 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Maybe they should get legal

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Re: Maybe they should get legal

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Date: 2007-08-30 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lonelyholiday.livejournal.com
That's interesting because just yesterday I listened to this piece (http://www.onthemedia.org/episodes/2007/08/24/segments/84475).

Date: 2007-08-30 07:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dylanesque29.livejournal.com
Seriously, fuck MS-13. Didn't they rape a deaf 13-year old in Foss PArk a few years ago? I have no sympathy for Morales whatsoever.

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Date: 2007-08-30 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] srakkt.livejournal.com
I'm not certain that I follow your reasoning as to why this depicts a "grey area of morality". This man was arrested by federal agents - a traumatizing experience for anyone, and particularly for someone trying to build a legitimate life for themselves, a saddening one. Whether or not this man is guilty of what he's been arrested for doesn't change that, certainly. But the converse is also true: that there was enough evidence in this case to gain an arrest warrant and make an arrest. It's an unfortunate and traumatizing experience certainly for mister Morales and unfortunately, it seems, for many of our neighbors here in Somerville who stayed home from work out of fear.

Is this a moral grey area? It's saddening, certainly. And possibly infuriating, in the case of people who've been made to fear leaving their homes. Is it morally ambiguous, though? I'm not trying to argue with you; I'm trying to understand your point.

Date: 2007-08-30 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] srakkt.livejournal.com
What troubles me most about this entire series of raids is that it seems, from the reporting (at least in English-language sources; I don't read Spanish) that legal residents (read: citizens, permanent residents, etc) in our communities who are of Latin American extraction are being made afraid enough to stay home. This sort of an operation should be accompanied by an enormous amount of public outreach to reassure our neighbors who are here legally.

Date: 2007-08-31 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] boblothrope.livejournal.com
Yeah, and how exactly do they check people's citizenship status anyway? I certainly don't carry a passport or birth certificate to work. And any database they use to look people up based on their driver's license is certainly a big mess that would confuse people with similar names.

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From: [identity profile] amethystmoon.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-09-01 04:11 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-09-04 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
Another good article on the Somerville News website today: As raids spread fear, feds stay silent

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