coffeehouse consideration

[modlin.livejournal.com]

So. I like to work or study in coffeehouses as much as the next person. I also like to walk over to True Grounds on weekend mornings for coffee and a bagel or breakfast burrito. And I like to sit at a table while eating my bagel or breakfast burrito. True Grounds isn't a very big place, and to all of you who bring your laptops and textbooks and sit there for long periods of time: have some consideration, please! It might be that 10:00 on Sunday morning isn't the best time to tie up a table for an hour. As for the woman who walked in the door, bypassed all the people standing in line, grabbed the table that had just opened up, opened up her laptop, and hadn't ordered anything 20 minutes later... am I the only one who considers this bad coffeehouse etiquette, even without the not ordering anything part?

Comments

[thespian.livejournal.com]

I don't just consider that rude, I consider that the sort of thing that should lead to the staff politely asking the person in question to leave over, as they're *not* a customer. This is a lot of why we'll be charging (nominally) for the internet use at the place where I work; in order to have access you'll need to have brought yourself to the attention of the staff.

[sonofabish.livejournal.com]

That's when an angry uncaffeinated mob needed to descend upon the table and.... well, we won't go there, but you get the idea.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

I think lynch mobs are an unfairly maligned form of punishment. Especially since the composition of one of these mobs from Diesel or TG would be hilarious.

[nomirena.livejournal.com]

That is extremely rude. (It reminds me of a Frasier I just watched last week.)
Cafes aren't libraries. I worked in a cafe in NYC in which the manager used to regularly have to remind customers of that and ask them to order something beyond one cup of coffee if they were going to take up a table for 2-3 hours.

[treacle-well.livejournal.com]

It's definitely bad etiquette to tie up a table without ordering anything, but I think my sense of "long period of time" differs from yours. I think it's okay to tie up a table for an hour if you've ordered something in places where it's otherwise pretty standard to be somewhat leisurely.

I agree that when a place is obviously quite busy and people are unable to find a table because most tables are in use by those who haven't consumed food or beverage at the establishment for a really long time it's bad etiquette to just keep sitting there for hours tying up a table.

[modlin.livejournal.com]

I agree in principle... but when more than half of the tables are occupied by people with laptops who have clearly settled in, and people are obviously looking for tables, I think the reasonable amount of time one can spend at a table gets shorter.

[slinkr.livejournal.com]

There's not much point in going to a coffee shop to read or do work if you're going to spend less than an hour there (unless you're killing time before a nearby appointment or something).

I've always heard that proper coffee shop etiquette is for solo patrons to share tables when it gets crowded. Not everyone is comfortable asking to share a table, but most people (myself included) are happy to share when asked.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I agree, but I think the comment about tying up a table for an hour referred to people who really do tie up the whole damn table since for some reason they are unable to use their laptops at home.

Maybe coffee shops should just start charging rent for the tables, applicable towards food & drink as desired, but owed whether or not you consume.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

Now there's an idea!

[tastyanagram.livejournal.com]

I completely agree, which is the reason why I've only gone to True Grounds twice even though I live a whole three blocks away. This is also why I don't frequent Diesel very often. The entire place is full of booths taken up by one person and one laptop. It's ridiculous.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

The laptop density at TG varies a lot by day and time of day (I also live a few blocks away).

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

This really bugs me too. Seems to me that Diesel could just put a sign up in the booths that says "Booths are reserved for 2 or more people." Maybe I'll suggest this next time I see one of the managers.

[xjustquietx.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, laptops take up booths because they are next to the outlets.

Diesel already has signs that say something to the effect of, "during our busiest hours these booths are reserved for large parties." Which makes sense to me. When I go in (during less busy hours) with my laptop, I always order food, and usually two drinks. The behavior described by the OP is awful, but many laptop users aren't so selfish.

I am always happy to share a booth with someone... either another laptop user or someone who wants to sit and enjoy their coffee... if you do see one of the managers, could you suggest perhaps a little sign that says something like, "feel free to share this booth," that us nice laptop users can set out so that people don't feel intimidated about asking them. It could be on the reverse of the signs they already have.

[ratatosk.livejournal.com]

I think this is a great idea. Diesel patrons just aren't uniformly incredibly extroverted and socially confident.

signs inviting people to share a table

[elements.livejournal.com]

I really like this idea.

Theoretically, folks could start doing that on their own without any buy-if from coffee shop owners. Just buy a big index card, fold in half, and write a message on it. Keep it in your laptop bag for use as needed. Bonus: add an LJ name and maybe run into friends along the way :D.

[fanw.livejournal.com]

I agree this was very rude! I think True Grounds attracts a lot of such folks because they offer free wireless, and I myself have brought my laptop on occasion, though never at peak hours.

Just a suggestion to throw out there. When everything is full, I do not hesitate to ask to share a table. If they really are studying, they certainly won't mind someone on the other side of that screen reading the newspaper quietly.

[ravenword.livejournal.com]

I agree that it is rude, especially cutting in the line! It wouldn't have been out of line for you to either politely ask the person if they wouldn't mind you sitting down at their table so you could eat the food you ordered, or for you to point out this kind of behavior to the staff. If they're losing paying customers over it and enough people complain, they may create a policy to deal with these people. My friends usually approach the booth-hogging laptop users at Diesel and ask if they don't mind sharing. If you're sitting quietly and reading the paper or something while you have your food/drink, they have no reason to say no.

I don't think it's wrong to bring a book or a laptop to the cafe if you're going to also be ordering food and drinks there (I often do this on my lunch hour at several cafes near where I work), but it is a little ridiculous how people will camp out for hours in a place that's packed to capacity.

[modlin.livejournal.com]

I've mentioned this to the True Grounds staff a few times, and asked them if they'd considered asking people to observe a time limit during busy times, but the counter staff always says that they're not the ones to decide such things. Honestly, they've never seemed to care very much.

Sharing tables is a good option, though I'm usually with someone else, which means that there's usually not room.

[nomirena.livejournal.com]

Maybe people who are with laptops and other studying/work paraphernalia should be asked to share tables, since they are the ones who are usually solo. They might do that in a library anyway.

[yakshaver.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's rude. But it's the coffeehouse's responsibility to have some rules and enforce them. Most people (not all, and I suspect not the person in question) will comply with signs that say "tables for customer use only", "during busy times, please leave your table within 20 minutes of finishing your meal", "form line here for next available table".

The only place I ever saw that solved this problem without signage was the late lamented Last Exit on Brooklyn (http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Exit_on_Brooklyn) ("Seattle's Oldest Coffeehouse, Est. 1967"). The small rectangular* tables around the perimeter of the room would often be filled by one or two people studying or playing chess, but the huge round tables were almost never completely full, and were big enough that even painfully shy people like me felt comfortable sitting with strangers.

* Slightly trapezoidal, actully

[modlin.livejournal.com]

The Last Exit! I used to go there, way back in the day! And yes, I agree... if only the folks at True Grounds seemed to care.

[jenskot.livejournal.com]

I don't mind if people take 3 hrs to sip one cup of coffee, but it's definitely tacky to just take a table without ordering anything at all (and, like, isn't it illegal? It should be...). And if I am mooching a table with my books, I have no problem moving over for someone who actually has to juggle a hot coffee and muffin.
My personal pet peeve about indy coffeehouses is actually the snotty staff and the incredibly abrasive music they often play. There's a time and a place for Gwar, and Tuesday morning when I'm studying ethics is not it. Really, if you're such a hipster, surely you can find a happy medium between deathmetal and canned Starbux jazz?

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

The man's name is Buddy Love.

[soong.livejournal.com]

I expect my beverage + snack purchase at such an establishment to buy me some time to make it my preferred study place. And every hour or two I'll go back and put coins in the meter and buy another drink. There may be some freeloaders and some who have overstayed there welcome and I don't know what the solution to them is but if there's space for me I'd very much like to settle in with my laptop for a caffeine fueled coding binge for a few hours.

[ron_newman]

OK, but I don't think feeding the meter gets you any right to the other seats at your table.

[srakkt.livejournal.com]

this is not an entirely reasonable expectation, given that the stated business of the establishment is not study hall. While there are times that resources may be available for study hall, "feeding the meter" doesn't provide carte blanche to appropriate scarce resources for purposes that are not directly associated with the business of the coffeehouse in the first place.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if you go to a place of business, buy something. It's really that simple.

[josephineave.livejournal.com]

Yassir will buy this place soon, so it won't be a problem. 15 minutes to drink your coffee and get out.

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

Whoops! Accidental coffee spill!

[veek.livejournal.com]

Man, some commenters here are just vicious.

I'm one of the folk who will sometimes come in, settle in for a long while (2-4 hours) and buy something every hour (or a little more frequently). I happen to work almost exclusively using a computer, which results in mad cabin fever. So no, I can't always sit at home -- and don't have an office. TG is an excellent place to work.

The suggestion of little signs saying "hey, yes, I'm sharing this table! come on over!" is an excellent one, for Diesel and TG both.

Fifteen minutes to drink my coffee and get out is not reasonable for a coffeehouse, laptop or no.

[modlin.livejournal.com]

That's reasonable, and I like to do it too, in places that aren't too busy. My point was just that I think there are times when staying for 2-4 hours just isn't appropriate, like on busy weekend mornings. If there aren't enough tables and lots of other people would like to use the place also, it's only polite to limit the time.

Fifteen minutes, not so much. Nobody wants that.

[ifotismeni]

yea, 15 mins and then leave? there's no point in even having tables if there's no way to take your time. might as well just have all coffeeshops as drive throughs.

i too am a long-term loiterer, but usually at starbucks, and there's always empty seats.

[thedoubleduches.livejournal.com]

The Starbucks in Davis? Shortly after I started grad school I gave up going there to study since there was almost never a seat available, and most of the tables are too small to bother trying to share when both of you have books, notebooks, laptops etc. Maybe I was going at the wrong times. :)

[xjustquietx.livejournal.com]

I agree, it is unreasonable to think that everyone with a laptop is going to work at home. For many reasons.

Since Diesel charges for internet, I think laptop users have every right to be there. Paying for a day's worth of access is paying more than two people who each buy a regular cup. Who is to say who deserves the table more?

The fact is, laptops are in the world, the same way other potentially annoying machines are - cellphones, cars, etc. People will eventually get used to it. The best we can hope that everyone is considerate of everyone else.