By the time they lay track down, flying cars will be a reality.

[horizon-radar.livejournal.com]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/02/state_wants_to.html

Discuss.

Comments

[ron_newman]

This seems all good to me, not sure why you would feel otherwise.
The only thing I'd want to add is an additional station at Winthrop Street in Medford, but that's up to Medford to ask for it.

[horizon-radar.livejournal.com]

I don't feel otherwise. I'm just curious as to what others think.

I also agree with the Winthrop Street stop.

[fefie.livejournal.com]

A very good preferred alternative, putting the Green Line terminus at Rte 16. (Some of EOT's other preferred alternatives I'm less fond of: building a maintenance facility next to Brickbottom, putting the Union Sq stop in the Fitchburg Line's right-of-way instead of actually in Union Square.)

More about the announcement here:
http://www.wickedlocal.com/somerville/news/x2143284199/States-transportation-guru-says-Green-Line-should-run-to-Route-16

[tober.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, the maintenance facility is critical (such that the extension could not reasonably operate without it) and there just aren't a lot of other potential places for it. If the line continued much further out, it might be possible to put the maintenance facility at the terminus, but that's not happening. As it is, basically, it's either near Brickbottom or near Boston Engine Terminal... and when you consider that Federal Railroad Administration rules prohibit any shared track between light rail (or rapid transit) and railroad - this means that you can't even have green line tracks and railroad tracks crossing each other at grade - even if the tracks in question are part of a yard - there's really just not enough room available near BET. Perhaps a maintenance facility on the North Point property (that part of it that is largely vacant) could be contemplated again now that the North Point developer has gone pretty thoroughly bust - which was not the case even a year ago.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I wish they would bring back the "A" line to Watertown. *sighs*

[m00n.livejournal.com]

The problem with the A line is that it ran down the middle of several busy roads and did not have its own, dedicated right-of-way. The bus they replaced it with probably *would* be faster and more on-time than the train ever was except for one fundamental problem with the T: When the line is part of the Green Line, it has to obey the headway requirements of the entire Green Line. If usage on the B-Line requires that trains run no more than 5 minutes apart, then trains on all of the other lines will also run 5 minutes apart (at least on paper). However once a route has been converted to a bus, the T will cover its budget shortfalls by cutting back service further and further until there's like 4 buses a day and only during rush hour. And of course they'll justify this because each decrease in service results in a slightly larger decrease in ridership.

[zard.livejournal.com]

Did anyone go to the 4 p.m. meeting? That most commuters couldn't attend since they were working? I would have liked to be there to wave my pom-poms.

I live just outside Medford Sq., and I am hoping they add a 5-minute bus to the line.

[fefie.livejournal.com]

The monthly (sort of) EOT meetings are always 4-6pm. (I attended the meeting.) The meeting will be televised on SCAT at some point. EOT will be holding some public outreach meetings in the neighborhoods in March in the evenings (like they did last year) to present their plan and get some final public comments on it. The meeting today was packed with folks wanting to weigh in on their concerns about the terminus, the proposed maintenance facility siting at Brickbottom, and EOT's recommended Union Sq station siting.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

Does that mean they will also end up on YouTube?

[arrowintwolakes.livejournal.com]

I'm all for it, but, at 26, I don't anticipate seeing this completed until I hit my 40's. Anyway, walking is comparable to taking the green line, unless they somehow implement a solution alongside this.

[spettacolo.livejournal.com]

That's a funny comment. When I moved to Ball Square in 1991 at age 21, everyone in the neighborhood was talking about how the Green Line was going to come to Ball Square... jump forward 19 years: I'm turning 40 this year and they're still bickering over plans. At this rate, my kids will be 40 before the thing is built. And I don't have kids yet.

[masswich.livejournal.com]

I think its more real now than its ever been- which doesn't mean it WILL happen unless people keep pushing for it.

I do personally think that if the city doesn't resolve the maintenance facility issue- by which I mean accept one in Brickbottom or some other place that works for EOT - then its much less likely.

Note that that article on the Journal online says that the Route 16 station is contingent on federal funds. The project is theoretically supposed to happen even if there are no federal funds. Federal "New Starts" funds are difficult to get.

[talonvaki.livejournal.com]

By the time they lay track down, flying trains will be a reality.

Where we're going, we don't need track.

[dominika-kretek.livejournal.com]

I still can't get over the refusal to take it out to the commuter rail stop. I guess it only affects reverse commuters and people who commute from the suburbs to Tufts, Medford Hillside, and Somerville, but it just seems silly when transfers can make all the difference between a doable commute and an impractical one.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

Given the high cost of widening the extremely ancient train bridge over the Mystic and the small amount of space available for additional tracks after the bridge, I can understand this. However as an alternative I would like to see another place to transfer from the Commuter Rail to the Green Line in the form of a new stop on the Lowell Line.

[ethanfield.livejournal.com]

I once asked about this at a meeting, because I thought it would be really nice to have a commuter rail stop in Ball Square, or at Lowell St (where it used to stop decades ago), or something similar.

Here's why they're not considering that: Part of the rationale for putting in the Green Line is to reduce the pollution in Somerville. Commuter Rail trains are still diesel trains. While diesel trains run relatively clean while cruising from stop to stop, they generate a *lot* of pollution when they're starting up from a standstill. If they put a commuter rail stop in the middle of Somerville, it could add a lot of pollution instead of reducing it.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

I've heard this excuse too, and I consider it to be just that: an excuse.

The number of extra fumes caused by a train stopping and starting again would be *far* outweighed by even a modest increase in car-to-train commuter converts, but it would be a reduction in vehicle pollution over an entire metropolitan area whereas the increase in diesel fumes would be highly localized.

In other words, this is basically a "not in my back yard" problem, and the logic is fundamentally flawed because, taken to its logical conclusion, the commuter rail would only ever stop in unpopulated areas, thus encouraging (read: requiring) people to use cars to get to the train rather than walking. I can think of *at least* two people off the top of my head who live within walking distance of where a Ball Square station would be, but drive to work because the train does not stop there.

The fact that almost the entire Greenbush Line was built with this mindset is proof positive to me that this entire system NEEDS to be converted to electric overhead power in order to grow without all of these stupid compromises.

[m00n.livejournal.com]

Things that have been invented since this thing was first officially proposed (in 1962) include:

-The Internet
-Email
-Personal Computers
-The Floppy Disk
-Audio Cassette Tapes
-Mobile telephones
-The Civil Rights Act
-National Public Radio and PBS
-UNIX
-FM radio's arrival in the United States

The integrated circuit actually beat Green Line service to Medford by 4 years!

I'd say flying cars could easily be next although I'd also say that if we can't even manage to get people to stay off of their mobile telephones (1973) while ON THE GROUND we might think twice about pursuing this invention at all. ;-)

[moireach.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, touché.

[ron_newman]

I'm pretty sure there were FM radio stations before 1962. My grandma had an FM radio receiver.

Also, PBS was previously called NET (National Educational Television) which goes back to the 1950s. I recall watching a program called "What's New" (produced by WGBH, I think?) and also "Misterogers' Neighborhood" (spelled that way, yes).

[moireach.livejournal.com]

I'm really pumped about the Union Square stop, which I hadn't heard about. I'm betting now (or a couple of years ago, before they started sprucing themselves up) would be a great time to buy in Union.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

Can someone who was at the meeting tell us if they are going to just run the Union spur up the commuter rail tracks or one of the nifty street trolley plans?

If they do keep it on the rails, I hope provisions are made to eventually shoot it up towards Porter. Not so much for the Red Line transfer but for the benefit of stops along the way in areas that could really use a real estate boost.

[moireach.livejournal.com]

Hmm, would there be many stops along the way? I kind of feel like the distance between Union and Porter is the average amount of distance between two T stops. I guess maybe having one (Central St @ Somerville Ave seems like it'd be roughly halfway?) would make sense.

[rethcir.livejournal.com]

I suppose you're right, one or two more would probably cover the area pretty nicely.

It would be sweet if Medford Square could get a little subway love somehow. It might take the ghost of Mike Dukakis to do that though.

[fefie.livejournal.com]

It would take effort from the community. There was a strong opposition in Medford to have the Green Line come anywhere near the town (apart from Ball Sq). Thanks to MGNA group in Medford (www.medfordgreenline.org), there was enough support to convince EOT to put the terminus there (technically on Somerville land, but surrounded by Medford).

[ron_newman]

That would require some serious tunnelling, as the Fitchburg RR right-of-way becomes quite narrow beyond Union Square, and especially near Porter Square.

[fefie.livejournal.com]

Yeah EOT/MBTA wants to do the easy route -- to build it in the Fitchburg right-of-way. Period. End of story on the nifty McGrath/Washington St light-rail-on-boulevard plan.

The one good thing is that it could allow future expansion to connect with the Red Line and Commuter Rail at Porter. (That would be a different project sometime ... in the future ... probably not in my life time.)

More info on all things Green Line Extension can be found at:
http://www.somervillestep.org/ (including info on what was covered yesterday)
http://www.medfordgreenline.org/ (Medford point of view)
http://www.greenlineextension.org/ (EOT's site)