The Bowl and Board space

[dangone.livejournal.com]

So I was just thinking, is there anything that we can do as a community to prevent the landlords from charging an exorbitant amount of rent for that space?

I had posted yesterday that the space is on loopnet.com for 20k and people started tweeting about it, everyone in shock.  Basically it got me thinking, do residents have a say in what gets placed in the space?

Only a restaurant or bar or chain will be able to afford that rent.

It would really suck if it was a Qdoba. 

Dan

Comments

[inahandbasket]

wait, 20k/month???

20k a month

[dangone.livejournal.com]

Yes, 20k a month "negotiable".

www.loopnet.com

I think that is really high, but maybe I am really out of things.

Dan

[inahandbasket]

answering my own question...
Rental Rate:$25 /SF/Year
Min. Divisible:10,000 SF
Max. Contiguous:12,750 SF

My math says $26,562.50 per month for the whole space.

THAT'S NUTS.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

while yer at it, i'd love to have my rent lowered too.

and not pay so much for a car loan.

yah!

#

[cn-i-crash-here.livejournal.com]

Why don't you negotiate a lower interest rate with your lender?

[davelew.livejournal.com]

I've seen 1,000 square foot apartments go for $2,000 a month in that kind of location, so 10X the rent for 10X the square footage sounds reasonable to me.

[dangone.livejournal.com]

I suppose I am just more concerned about what kind of business CAN afford that kind of rent, because my guess is it isn't going to be anything good.

[blondeamazon.livejournal.com]

...or local. Davis, and Somerville/Cambridge in general, seem to like supporting local businesses so I can see where this question has merit.

[tfarrell.livejournal.com]

No, we really don't have any say about what goes in there, as long as it's zoned for it, and clearly it's zoned for business. And the landlord can charge whatever they want to, as long as somebody is willing to pay it. If it's really too high, nobody will pay it and the landlord will suffer until they lower their price, or they'll get a stream of idiots who will open, fail, and close in the space, leaving it standing un-rented frequently in between, and the landlord will suffer from all the periods of non-rental. They may then realize they're being stupid and lower the rent, or they may be stupid and keep trying to get too much. I've seen both happen.

Or, it may be that they'll get what they're asking for and the tenant will be a success, in which case, clearly what the landlord is asking isn't as unreasonable as it seems.

I see nothing wrong with another restaurant in Davis Square. If it's a chain and you don't want chains, don't patronize it. (And depending on what it is I may join you in not patronizing it.) If the neighborhood really doesn't want that chain, it won't get enough customers to stay there.

[cn-i-crash-here.livejournal.com]

We in fact don't have any say about what goes in there, but we can act to change that if we're determined.

[cn-i-crash-here.livejournal.com]

In real estate, the highest serious bidder, bar none, almost always wins the property. This "free market" mode is so ingrained into law and culture here and elsewhere in the U.S., it is difficult to stem the tide of gentrification anywhere for very long when there are parties willing to pay a premium. What can we do?

Organized effectively, citizens could boycott an undesired tenant or could influence the government to use legal tools against it. With enough momentum, a rent control law could be promulgated. That's easily enough said! It would be a very tough battle, starting with recruiting a mass of people who agree with you and care enough to act. Not impossible, though!

Personally, I wouldn't be optimistic for such a movement in Davis Square, which has been allowed to "grow" so much already. But just because the owner is asking for $20k per month, it doesn't follow that a tenant necessarily exists that's willing to pay it. Anyone against gentrification can take heart in that consequence of the "free market". :)

[secretlyironic.livejournal.com]

Seriously, rent control is a terrible idea. Been tried, doesn't work. Repealed for very good reasons. Economics 101 material here, folks.

Yes, that's too much to charge, and they'll have to adjust the price to something the market can bear.

A variety of simple ways to choose the business that rents that space

[secretlyironic.livejournal.com]

All you need to do is buy the property entirely and then you can rent it to whomever you would like.

Alternatively, come up with $20,000 a month, rent it yourself, and then sublease the property below cost to the business you would like.

If you don't approve of the business that winds up there, feel free to ignore it. Or, I don't know, picket. "Hey Hey, Ho Ho, QDoba Offends My Aesthetic Sensibilities" makes a lovely chant.

Re: A variety of simple ways to choose the business that rents that space

[cn-i-crash-here.livejournal.com]

I agree. If you perceive an injustice, the only reasonable action is to ignore it.

[hikermtnbiker.livejournal.com]

I tend to agree that the economics will sort things out but I wonder if there is some way that the city could create incentives to encourage locally owned businesses. Maybe some kind of tax break for landlords that rent to locally owned places or some rules about the size of the space? I know that the city wants to maximize tax revenue and higher rents mean higher property values so perhaps they don't really care who goes in there.

[lizzielizzie.livejournal.com]

For a long time, the City of Lowell worked with the small business assistance center (SBAC) and The Lowell Plan to help local entrepreneurs learn about running their own business, write a business plan, get financing, and open up businesses in the downtown area. Of course, they were trying to fill vacancies and convince folks to open up in downtown. I'm not sure Somerville has the same problem filling vacancies that Lowell did/does.

I'm not sure if this partnership still exists, specifically The Lowell Plan. I know the City works closely with the SBAC on programs for small business owners in Lowell.

[ron_newman]

I would hesitate to demonize the Gorin family, who own the building and have rented only to local businesses over the years (True Colors, McIntyre & Moore, Jimmy Tingle's, Poor Little Rich Girl, Bowl & Board).

[serious-noir.livejournal.com]

What was True colors? I vaguely remember that.

[latvianchick.livejournal.com]

The rent per sq ft is actually in line with what other places are renting for in the area - on the high end of "in line," but it's also in a prime location. The problem is that it's such a huge space that few local businesses would need or want all of it. Some sort of large-item retail, maybe.

Even Bowl and Board felt like it kind of rattled in there, I think (although a shrinking inventory due to bankruptcy may have something to do with it; when their store was on Mass Ave they didn't have such problems with filling space).

[ron_newman]

Can it somehow be subdivided?

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

$25/sq ft/mo is not that outrageous of a cost for prime commercial real estate. You have to remember commercial property tax rates are much much higher.

Does this mean Bowl & Board can move back to their previous location, since it is STILL vacant since they left ever so long ago?

[ron_newman]

No, they filed for Chapter 7 liquidation. See my 'NPR story' post.

Communities do/can control what businesses are welcome

[serious-noir.livejournal.com]

fwiw - many communities do control what businesses are able to locate in the community and they do it for the reasons the OP was (I assume) implying: that certain businesses do not support the community values and/or goals. This is done through zoning and licenses. So it is not at all unusual or uncommon.

For example, I would be surprised if the city licensed another full-on bar in that space. If this were Salem, it would be surprising if a Gap would be allowed in that space- or a Trader Joe's, for that matter.

So communities do and can control these things. Davis Sq. doesn't have a great track record though - there seems little sensitivity to directing how the village develops, aside from the issue of liqueur licenses/closing hours. Ex: the street level of One Davis Square is a disaster - that should never have been approved. The planned development at the corner of Summer + Cutter that is under way does not look like it will be "good" for the community.

But your miles + values may vary. It would be a shame if DS goes the way of Harvard Sq.

Re: Communities do/can control what businesses are welcome

[ron_newman]

But zoning applies only to new development. It can't control when one retail business replaces another in the same space.

Licensing has more flexibility, but generally applies only to bars and restaurants.

Harvard Square

[dangone.livejournal.com]

Sorry, didn't realize so many people would get bothered by my initial post.

The rent just seems crazy to me, and I hate to think that it will be a string of businesses going in and then closing a little while after. I know the bookstore said the rent was the reason why they left.

I just don't want Davis to become Harvard Sq., that's all.

Re: Harvard Square

[i-leonardo.livejournal.com]

i imagine mayor curtatone wouldn't mind at all if that happened.

[overstim.livejournal.com]

I think we should all take a moment, step back, and realize how lucky we are that we live in a state, in a country, where we're free to have such a retarded discussion such as this.

[ron_newman]

Discussing the future of a large commercial space is not 'retarded'. I consider that term needlessly insulting.

[fefie.livejournal.com]

"Only a restaurant or bar or chain will be able to afford that rent."

I reluctantly agree, and it bothers me. Davis Sq. used to have a greater variety of shops; now its mostly banks and eateries (and that reminds me of what Harvard Sq. has become).

davis vs. union

[dangone.livejournal.com]

Someone told me at work this morning that a Staples is moving into the Citizens Bank building.

Hello Harvard Square! It's official.

Guess Union will become the new Davis.

Re: davis vs. union

[ron_newman]

It's proposed and probably will happen, but requires a zoning approval because they would be subdividing the space and adding a door where there is now a window.

I can't really get upset about this. The space was built to be Somerset Savings Bank's headquarters office, not retail. It stood empty for years after USTrust bought Somerset and then Citizens bought USTrust. An architecture firm leased it as overflow office space for a year or two, but then it became empty again.

[acidgalore.livejournal.com]

Looks like we don't have a say in what goes in a space. But we can say what we wouldn't like to see go there(e.g. yet another burrito place) or what we would like to see: a cool bookstore, like brookline booksmith or harvard sq bookstore, or a gallery / art space / bookstore combination place. Of course, the way things are going w/ the print business & the economy is in general, I can only see bank ppl rolling their eyes reading a loan application for such a place, and then immediately stamping DENIED when they see the rent $$ they ask for.

From what Ron mentioned the space had been empty for years(?) at some point, which could sadly indicate that the owners are not desperate to have it rented right away.

But I'm pretty sure the City can put some pressure on the owners, cause empty storespace is not good for anyone. Just don't make it a burrito place. Thank you.

[fefie.livejournal.com]

It's a mystery to me why Davis Sq. cannot retain a bookstore. Several have called it home for a brief period of time over the years. Porter Sq Books is wonderful.

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

Here's what you can do:

a) Speak with your alderman.
b) Call or write to the building's owners, the Gorin family, to express your concerns:
GRA
255 Elm St
Somerville, MA 02144-2956
(617) 623-0551

Those are the things you can do.

Meh...

[nvidia99999.livejournal.com]

I like my baby seal steak well done. :)

Re: Meh...

[canongrrl.livejournal.com]

depends on the type of club used. If its got good heft and spikes (tenderizing) rare is better

keeping it local

[dangone.livejournal.com]

I did not realize the landlord in this space had such a history of keeping it local.

That is great, and keeps me hopeful for the future of this space and the square.