A *Friendly* Meet-Up Invitation

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Everyone is invited to a community idea exchange meet-up that a few of us are having this Wednesday at Diesel at 7:30....



For those just tuning in from this weekend, there was growing tension between this community and it's moderator, which led first to a (probably temporary) splinter group forming, and later that day to the moderator stepping down and giving this community to new mods. It was about general unhappiness with the atmosphere and hostile tone growing in the community, not about cut rules. There was drama, but it's over and we now have a chance make this community better, friendlier, more useful, more welcoming, and a truer reflection of Davis' real-world spirit.

Completely by surprise, cos made me a moderator, and I gratefully accept the opportunity to help with whatever new improvements are to come. Some ideas I've been hearing for a long time now:

Tagging
Use of the Photo Scrapbook
Periodic social coffee meet-ups (optional, of course)
Friendly and welcoming leadership
Simpler rules applied uniformly and adhered to by the mods themselves

A few of us are getting together to toss around ideas, and get to know one another. I'd like to invite anyone from the community who's interested to join us at Diesel, have some coffee, offer up brainstorming. If you're not a meet-up-y type, or just aren't interested in that, don't worry, it's totally voluntary and I'll take notes to post here (under a cut!).

Comments

[desiringsubject.livejournal.com]

Boy, Diesel will be crowded Wednesday! Boston Queer Poly Women's group (bqp_women) meet-up is 7:00 on second Wednesdays.

I don't know how much overlap there is. I'm sure whatever you come up with will be fine. I just thought I'd mention that there'd be two simultaneous meetings in the same place. Remember to buy coffee so Diesel still gets some profit!

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

I don't think there will be many of us, really. I tend to enjoy meet-ups more than most people do -- a lot of people hate 'em and don't care to crossover internet acquaintences into the face-to-face world. But a few of us are just offering it up to anybody who wants to.

[cos]

huh, that makes it more likely I will go, since I will be entertaining a visitor who happens to be a queer poly woman :) So even though she's from another state and davis_square administration may not interest her, maybe she'll want to meet some of you people while I go to this :)

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Hope you do show up!

[ron_newman]

Are any of them course 18 majors at MIT? Then they could be queer polymaths.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

It's just an *optional* meeting for those who want it. It's not a gigantic deal.

I think they're great ideas too, but the former Mod didn't agree and wouldn't hear of it. Now we have a chance to implement them. Just sitting down to talk it over, is all.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

I'd really like to come. I'll see if I can make the time. Thank god I finished my final papers and assignments for classes last night and now I have a bit of free time before the holidays.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Cool! Hope you can stop down!

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

This is pretty embarassing, but I wandered around Diesel for a while and couldn't actually identify anything that looked like a group of livejournallers. Um. Guess I should've asked for a secret code or something.

Anyway, hope you guys had fun.

[ron_newman]

We were towards the back. I wouldn't have found the group either, except that I saw siderea, whom I know from Real Life, and plumtreeblossom, whom I'd met just once before but who had also posted a real userpic of herself.

The table we sat around had a small paper sign that said "LJ", but that would have been pretty easy to miss. I just walked up to it and said, "I'm looking for a group of LiveJournal users" and they said "Yeah, that's us."

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Y'all were around a table? little short table or a real table? Because I saw the other posting that said that some poly group was meeting there, and I didn't want to interrupt anyone. I never saw an LJ sign.

[ron_newman]

A low table. There were about eight of us. Besides cos and the two others I named above, I don't remember any of the usernames. There was another large group of folks at the next table over, whom I guess were the poly group. (You would have had to walk by them to get to us.)

I got there around 8:00 and was probably the last to arrive. By 9:00, we had started to break up.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Walked around, listened to a few conversations, got a drink, drank it, left. Poop!

[imlad.livejournal.com]

Would love to come but probably won't make it - translation project deadline on Wednesday. Let's make sure we chat about it though.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Well at least I'll get to see you on Tuesday instead!

[folktraveler.livejournal.com]

I think this is a great idea. Odds are that I'll be there...

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Awesome. :-) Looking forward to it.

[dj-daeva.livejournal.com]

OK i don't want to poo poo all over your ideas...and i'm not really...i just think that people are expending an awful lot of energy and time on something incredibly trivial...lol

it's an LJ community...not a fortune 500 company...

<3

[simply-juniper.livejournal.com]

I think it's a sweet idea. Yes, it's just an LJ group but it's a community and it's a nice opportunity to make the cross over. I did this when my community was just starting out and now we're over 400 strong and drama free.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

I agree. And since this is a local online community, why not take advantage of proximity and meet some neighbors, you know? For 2 years now I've been interacting with members of this community in cyberspace only, when almost all of them live practically around the corner. There's just something off about that, to me. So, this is a chance to meet the real people behind the posts.

If it's fun, maybe we can have more meet-ups periodically, similar to how poly_boston does. Poor crowded Diesel! Maybe we could alternate there and Someday.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Hey, there is nothing wrong with Starbucks. ;)

Actually I hear a lot of good noise about True Grounds--isnt' that the cafe in Ball Square?

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

True grounds is nice (and reeeeally close to my house)!

[mattlistener.livejournal.com]

I'd say Diesel all the way. With their expansion they have many times more standing and seating room than Someday.

Plus, Someday's management is grumpy vs. Diesel's is community-nurturing.

[dj-daeva.livejournal.com]

I can totally see your point...i really do...i just think there are so many better things to be spending this much time on...mobilize people to do a food or gift drive for charity, to pick up trash in davis, or whatever...having a meeting to determine how to manage a community just seems silly to me.

it's common sense...cut large things, if you have a problem with it, take a hike :o)

but that's just my opinion...i personally could care less if people post ads or whatever as long as they're pertinent to happenings around davis square...i've found out about a lot of local things i wouldn't have learned about otherwise via posts on lj communities.

but i digress.

i think if you guys want to do it, then that's fine...there's nothing wrong with that...i totally see your point...i just don't think that the "issue" warranted this much activity :o)

<3

[cos]

I think you misunderstand. Nobody suggested having a meeting just to talk about whether people should lj-cut their ads. That would indeed be silly. But... read this post here, the one you're responding to. Does that sound like what her idea was?

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

'Zackly. :-)

There's all kinds of reasons why members of an online community would want to meet up. I made it pretty clear in my post that micro-managing the lj-cut issue wasn't my intent.

For some reason, suggesting real-world meetings in any community (not just this one) really pisses some people off, and I don't understand why. It's certainly OK to not be interested. I didn't expect more than a handful of people to want to come. But I don't think it should anger anyone that other people are going to meet up, for whatever their reason. Not saying the poster above is angry (I don't think she is), but I often see reactions of "asaultedness" when a real-world meeting is suggested.

As a person who flew to Japan once for a meet-up with an online-met friend, I can say I'm the type who likes real-world meet-ups!

[dj-daeva.livejournal.com]

i'm not pissed off about it...lol

i have several friends that were from lj that are now really good friends in person...

maybe i should've made this comment to an earlier post so people wouldn't get all bent out of shape over it...it wasn't my intent...i just (again) think that mountains were made out of mole hills and a lot of energy was wasted on that.

NOW GO MEET UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE!! :oP

<3

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Hehe, yep, LJ is great for making friends, I've found. :-)

[dj-daeva.livejournal.com]

:oD

<3

[dj-daeva.livejournal.com]

No I understand that...but I'm just saying that in general this whole thing (starting from the very beginning with screening posts, splinter groups, "new management" etc) is stupid and was a really trivial thing to be expending this much energy over.

that's all.

<3

[cos]

In that case, I think you're missing two separate things:

1. The original blowup wasn't about lj-cuts, it was about the moderator's fit of pique that made lots of people fear she might delete the community without warning. That's reason enough for a splinter group. And a splinter group is reason enough to change moderators, to draw people back and un-splinter. But that's okay, if you think it's trivial and wouldn't have minded if the community suddenly vanished, why bother commenting?

2. Just because that brouhaha with the splinter group is what prompted plumtreeblossom to take initiative and say, let's get together in person and talk, doesn't make it a bad idea, even if the initial trigger were entirely trivial. Heck, she might've had that idea for any other random reason. She's not saying, let's all expend lots of energy over all the stuff that happened recently. She's saying, let's expend energy on meeting each other and talking about ideas for things we may want to do.

I think it's (mildly) mean to her to post bitingly dismissive comments, based on your feelings about how trivial everything that happened earlier was (or should have been, or whatever). I don't think you meant to be mean to her, but that's how it came across to me.

[dj-daeva.livejournal.com]

i wasn't being mean at all...just putting in my two cents like other people did...i don't see you getting in a huff over anyone who happens to agree with you.

i just think there are better things to put that much energy into. end of story.

it's not mean; it's just my opinion.

<3

[siderea]

For the record, as a third party watching this exchange, I found the way you kept making the same comment -- something like five times now -- very pushy and hostile. I don't expect you realized you were coming across that way, so please just take this as a friendly heads-up.

And, for what it's worth, everybody has to make his or her own decisions on what is worthy to spend the hours of their days on; most people aren't mighty pleased to have someone else tell them something they're doing isn't worth doing. Most folks take that as a rather hostile act. If it comes with a specific counter-proposal, many are willing to swallow their offense to consider it, but just telling someone "what you're doing isn't worth doing" is a good way to get a face full of 'tude. It's actually remarkable how little acrimony you got; the mods are remarkably tolerant and gracious people.

[dj-daeva.livejournal.com]

i was reiterating my point, because i felt i was being misunderstood...my point was not that a meet-up was a bad idea...like i said, perhaps i should have made the comment to the first entries about the matter, but i didn't read lj for a few days (until the meet up post was made).

so i was trying to explain where i was coming from. from where i'm sitting, there was bickering over something that i personally didn't consider a big enough issue to warrant the response it got.

now if that makes me mean and hostile then so be it, but i think that's a pretty ridiculous assessment to give to someone who was just expressing an opinion that happened to be contrary to what other people expressed.

i don't see why there's a need to label me as anything. in fact, i think i expressed my opinion very calmly and rationally without resorting to insulting anyone.

All I said was this:

OK i don't want to poo poo all over your ideas...and i'm not really...i just think that people are expending an awful lot of energy and time on something incredibly trivial...lol

it's an LJ community...not a fortune 500 company...

Tell me where in that I'm being mean or hostile.

<3

[simply-juniper.livejournal.com]

I think I should clarify my comment a little. We got together to get to know each other, not to discuss how the community should be run. So that was what I meant by "this" when I said "I did this".

[catalyst.livejournal.com]

     since i won't be there (and i know you've all just been on pins and needles), here's my input:

Tagging
Use of the Photo Scrapbook
     everybody likes those things, sure.

Simpler rules applied uniformly and adhered to by the mods themselves
     contradictory with the above. with a group of such a weak mandate as this one, you have to choose between time-consuming features and reasonable modding.

     also, there was really nothing wrong with old rules or modding, except for that silliness at the end.

Periodic social coffee meet-ups (optional, of course)
     eh, when i want to meet with some set of people distinguished by living in the neighborhood of diesel, i'll just go to diesel.

Friendly and welcoming leadership
     i am actively against this. all mods should be prickly ideologues.

[hauntmeister.livejournal.com]

I'm at math teacher classes Wednesday afternoon/evening, but I'll come by when they're done, to see if you guys are still going!

Three proposed guidelines....

[hauntmeister.livejournal.com]

Since I may not be able to be at the meetup until a bit into it, let me offer the following proposals for the community...Maybe they'll be either shot down or agreed to by the time I get there!

1) All posts larger than a certain size need to be lj-cut down to that length. (I propose 20 lines. Yes, I realize one can quibble that if you're reading the group on a Tektronix 4010 storage display in VT-100 mode, 20 lines can appear as 23 lines, or some such complaint about hardware variations, but it's the general principle we need to discuss here.)

2) All images should be lj-cut. No discussion as to what a "large" image is, or what "worksafe" means. All images go behind a cut, period.

3) Comments must always be enabled. This includes posts by moderators.

[ron_newman]

I'd like to propose that any announcement of a Davis Square-area artistic, cultural, or civic activity should always be considered on-topic (and thus not an "advertisement"), even if an admission fee is charged. Maybe even expand that from "Davis Square-area" to Somerville in general.

[hauntmeister.livejournal.com]

If you have something of interest for Somerville in general, I suggest you post it in the somervillemass community, which would be more appropriate.

[komos.livejournal.com]

I'm of a mind that if there is going to be an ad cut rule, it needs to be all conclusive so we don't have quibbling over the definitions of artistic, cultural, or civic. Basically, if we're going to say that someone can't stump without cut for roommates, it also means that they can't stump without cut for their favorite candidate or for the band that they're in.

Keep in mind that I was not in favor of the cut rule when it was proposed since nothing that had been posted up to that point had seemed particularly disruptive. If there's a rule, it should be simple, easy to understand, and not something that someone needs to mull over much. All ads in or all ads out are by far the easiest options. Non content-specific size limitations with all pics cut is another reasonable approach.

[komos.livejournal.com]

heh.... "all inclusive"

I blame sleepy.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to cut all my posts, no matter what they are! :-)

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

I am really, really, (did I mention really) in favor of cutting anything that is promoting a special interest--whether that be a yard sale, an apartment seeking a roommate, a political rally, needing a site for a filming, needing bodies to help move, etc. I am also generally in favor of hauntmeister's suggestions of general cuts for long posts, and ANY photo. That's just being considerate.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Yep. I'm noticing people today are putting in cuts most of the time. I think we can promote it as a courteous habit for everyone. Personally I'm going to cut all of my posts no matter what they are, to help set an example. I wouldn't expect everyone to, though.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I'm reading Andy's post as not distinguishing between ads and non-ads, and that seems fine. Long posts should be cut, period, whether they're ads or not.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

To be even clearer: I agree 100% with hauntmeiser up there.

Cut all images, period. Cut all posts longer than a certain length, and none of that "100% cut" crap. Comments always enabled.

I will go one step further and say get rid of the no-anonymous-commenting blanket rule that seems to be in place and that, afaik, was never approved by the masses, anyway. People can specify it in their entries if they care.

[siderea]

I have an alternate cut policy recommendation. How about the rule "You must lj-cut to 10 lines or less (and all images) any post, upon request by any member of the community, within one hour. You also must not whine, bitch or kvetch about having to do so. Failure to adhere will have the post deleted."?

That way, anyone who wants to take the gamble, who really thinks that their post should not be cut and that that is so self-evident no one will disagree with them, well, they should get to put it to the test. And, if they are wrong and anyone at all wants it cut, then they are over-ruled. And if they're not around to cut it or can't handle being over-ruled like that graciously, delete the post.

Yes, I am suggesting a policy which is asymetrical: the poster has more responsibility not to offend the readers than the readers have to put up with the poster posting something annoyingly long. That is how I feel it should be; such an arrangement guards against tragedy of the commons effects.

It also, unlike other policies, actually legislates what it is that I think we want: for people to be considerate of their fellow comm members and not treat them just like "eyeballs" to advertise to.