Continuing The Discussion on Trader Joe's

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Sometime last week there was brief mention of desire (which I'm sure most of us share) for a Trader Joe's in Davis. Someone here, and I don't remember who, had information on that and said that Trader Joe's rejected Davis as a location because of the lack of parking. I've been thinking about that, and I'm wondering if that person, or anyone, has more information on how the company was approached or how they arrived at their decision.

If it's strictly a parking matter, one need only look at the Boylston Street store to know it can and does succeed with minimal-to-no parking.

Joe's has parking-lotted stores in Cambridge and Arlington. Yet they have not one store in Manhattan. Are they really that afraid of areas with low cars-to-residents ratios? Could it be that when they were asked about a Davis location, they simply didn't know the demographics of this neighborhood and presumed there would be no support or interest? A Davis location would be a goldmine for them, we all know that. But it would appear they don't.

So my questions:

Is there an appropriately sized space for them available? Who owns it?

We know the pros, but would there be any cons to their being here?

And, could an online petition with several thousand signatures from ethusiastic area residents who would be regular customers have enough positive influence to make them think again?

Curious for your thoughts...

Comments

[overstim.livejournal.com]

Another question... do you really think you know better than the entire marketing and development departments of Trader Joes?

"A Davis Square location would be a goldmine for them, we all know that. But it would appear they don't."

You obviously have a lucrative career ahead of you! WHy not go to work for them and set them straight?

Seriously though, there are a LOT more factors than simply parking. The population is a lot denser on Boylston St. than in Davis Sq., for example. Then factor in taxes, permits, zoning, rent, and competition, and put THAT on top of the parking.

By the way, Trader Joes is finally moving into NYC this calendar year, their first store is being built as we we speak in the Union Sq. area.

[imlad.livejournal.com]

I've known quite a few professional marketing people at high levels who were really poor at their jobs, so it is a distinct possibility that plumtreeblossom knows better. I don't pretend to say that I did the marketing research myself, but I know of quite a few people who don't have cars and would welcome a TJ in this area (it may not be as dense as Boylston, but it is still fairly dense). As far as competition goes, I cannot think of anything that could compete directly within walking area (certainly not Shaw's). Just my two cents.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

You obviously have a lucrative career ahead of you! WHy not go to work for them and set them straight?

Wow, we haven't had any raging caustic assholery around here since the old Mod left! Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

I posted this for open discussion, and I *never* said I knew better than anyone else about the issue. You're more than welcome to state a contrary opinion, to me or anyone else, but you're going to do it in a civil manner without flames or you're not going to do it at all. The old mod was run out of here for hostility just like yours, and that kind of flaming isn't welcome here.

[turil.livejournal.com]

Are you sure this is, as you say, "assholery"? Could it not be simple sarcastic humor? The written word is so often taken in a different way than it was intended. Maybe instead of getting so upset and making threats, you could simply ask the poster if he or she was serious...

[signsoflife.livejournal.com]

I had assumed that the original comment, "At a Task Force meeting last year, I told the redeveloper of One Davis Square that we didn't need a CVS, we need a Trader Joe's. He said that Trader Joe's wouldn't come here because there's no parking. Which doesn't make sense to me -- they're on Boylston Street in the Back Bay, which definitely has no parking." meant not that TJ had refused Davis, but that the developer had refused to contact TJ.

[ron_newman]

I believe the developer told us that he had approached Trader Joe's, but they had turned him down for this reason.

[tisana.livejournal.com]

Isn't the Citizen's Bank space empty now? It has a small parking area.
It probably would be worth it to them, but they may reason that Davis is close enough to the Arlington (on the bus line) or Cambridge locations that it may take too much business away from them to be worth it.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_meej_/]

Citizen's isn't - the bank is still there - but the other half of the ground floor is. The parking lot is teeny tiny, though, and nearly all Citizen's Bank's except for little bits that are tied to the offices upstairs (which is where I work, in case anyone wondered why I tend to chime in about that building).

I'm pretty sure the open part of the ground floor is way too small for a TJ's.

[ursamajor]

Heh, I used to take that ride from Porter allll the way up to Arlington Heights for TJ's. It's a good 30 minutes each way on public transportation, but that's *still* less time than it would take me to get to and from the River Street TJ's. Plus, one bus versus the t with stairs and fifteen minutes walk in each direction with a granny cart of groceries that weigh more than you do? *g*

[spatch]

For what it's worth, online petitions usually mean next to nothing and can be easily faked/mocked up/otherwise shenaniganned. Actual physical paper petitions carry a lot more weight with Powers That Be.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Yes, I looked around at some of those sites, and wasn't impressed with what I saw. But the other side of that coin is that, though I'd love a Trader Joe's, it doesn't mean enough to me to go door-to-door gathering signatures. A table in the square, maybe. But I don't know nearly enough about it yet to start an initiative anytime soon. I just posted my thoughts for discusion here to learn what I can.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

I mentioned on the previous post that the proximity of the Cambridge and Arlington locations may be a con for them. Even for people without cars they are relatively accessible, and they're extremely convenient for people-of-car. They may not want to undercut those locations (for all I know those locations can't afford to be undercut), and they may see a Davis Square location as unlikely to get enough people when there are already Cambridge and Arlington locations. Even though you may know lots of people who would appreciate the convenience...profit margins in the grocery business are incredibly thin, like 3% or something, and it is insanely easy for groceries to go out of business. Even a relatively small overlap among the Cambridge, Arlington, and hypothetical Somerville locations might torpedo all three. Add into that the extremely nearby Porter Square Star, which is definitely not the same kind of store as Trader Joe's but can pretty easily accomodate someone's grocery needs...*and* MacKinnon's *and* a farmer's market half the year *and* convenience stores...

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

I can see that. I never go to the Cambridge or Arlington stores, though. I use the one on Boylston since I work down there. I forgot about McKinnon's, since I never go there either. I know some people really value it and wouldn't want to see anything happen to it.

[mrcairo.livejournal.com]

and yet cambridge seems to support THREE Whole Foods markets, 3+ Star Markets (or shaws,
or whatever they are today), a Trader Joes, and a few other markets.

I know that I'm annoyed that I have to go to cambridge to get my groceries.

[yangelina.livejournal.com]

I agree with signsoflife's comment. It is possible that TJ didn't reject Davis Square, but the developer jumped the gun and made his/her own conclusion.
I believe that a TJ will benefit folks not just in Davis Square, but possibly many many others north of the river who live near the Redline. It is simply a pain the butt to go all the way to Boylston for TJ, or hop on a bus/drive to other TJ locations (that I know of). TJ in Davis Sq means convenience to people without cars, near the Redline. That's a lot of people, and ought to be a huge incentive to the marketing team of TJ.
I also agree that a paper petition would be more worthwhile, but personally, I'd be happy to sign either (or both!).

[talonvaki.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Wholeheartedly. Because the only one that's accessible to car-less me is Boylston, unless I feel like walking all the way down River street and back (with groceries!). The fact that Boylston's two trains (red and green) basically means I only go there if I happen to be in the area.

There is no TJs on the redline (Cambridge's is a good hike from Central as I said)...and if there were one, I'm sure people would come from the Harvard, Porter, Davis and Alewife areas.

They have one location in SoMa San Francisco; it has nominal parking, but it shares the lot with a Bed Bath and Beyond and a Toys R Us...so the net effect of available parking was, basically, kind of like they didn't have any...but they did have a bus stop rignt in front.

I also wouldn't mind getting a Super 88 in the area...I'd go there far more often than TJs!

[turil.livejournal.com]

A coop would be nice, and a lot better for the community than TJs.

Though I'd be happy with a TJs too. And if one were to contact TJs about the suggestion, one might let slip that Somervillians were looking into starting a coop in Davis...

[ron_newman]

The only empty spaces sufficiently large for a grocer (TJ's or otherwise) are the Citizens Bank building and the Buck-a-Book (perhaps combined with the also-vacant Mini-Mart space next door).

It's important to emphasize that we want a grocer only to fill empty spaces, and not to displace other businesses already in the square. If a landlord reacts to our efforts by evicting a bunch of local businesses in order to combine them into a space big enough for a TJ's, we will have damaged the square rather than improving it.

Also, it's important to emphasize that we don't want to put the existing small food stores (Farmer's Bounty, MacKinnon's, Sessa's) out of business.

[four-thorns.livejournal.com]

yes, exactly. i would be very unhappy if anything happened to mckinnon's.

TJs

[cleanup-davissq.livejournal.com]

In Coolidge, there is a dedicated loading area in front of the store. At the Buck a book section of the road, there could be an enforced loading area foe a few hours a day for TJ deliveries...

As far as pushing out existing retail tenants, getting rid of Family Dollar and McDonalds for a TJs would be fantastic -housing investors in the area would see an immediate increase in property values!

[sissychrissy1.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, there is actually a Trader Joe's opening in Manhattan any day now (if it hasn't already opened its doors).

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

So I heard. It isn't on their website listing yet. Well, at least someone is getting one!

[c-m-i.livejournal.com]

Also, I wonder how well that space would work for deliveries. There doesn't seem to be much loading dock space, but then again I have not really cased the place out.

[ron_newman]

Good point. It was built to be office space and has never had any kind of retail or commercial use. Originally it was the headquarters of Somerset Savings Bank, before USTrust ate it up (and then Citizens ate up USTrust).

[guxx.livejournal.com]

If it's strictly a parking matter, one need only look at the Boylston Street store to know it can and does succeed with minimal-to-no parking.

Surely you're not implying Davis Square's foot traffic is comparable to Boylston Street.