cafes, wireless, and Davis

[jadelennox]

story found via dk_medianation:

From the Globe on wireless in cafes:

In Davis Square, Diesel Cafe charges for wireless -- about $14 a month -- but co-owner Jen Park said she also confronts customers who are not buying food. Perhaps the worst offenders are the people who buy coffee at the Starbucks across Elm Street, then head for the comfortable red booths at Diesel with their Starbucks cup in hand, she said.

``My approach tends to be friendly, like `Can I get you anything?' " Park said. ``Usually, the answer is `no.'
...
Up the street in Davis Square, O'Naturals offers wireless as a free amenity, but recently began shutting off its signal during its busiest hours. Manager Sonja Seglin said laptop users used to linger on a single cup of coffee during lunch, leaving nowhere for newcomers to eat their soups and sandwiches. The lunch crowd complained, and O'Natural's now shuts off its Wi-Fi access from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m.
...
The way Brandli sees it, Diesel offers ``a bargain" as far as workspaces go: Each month, she spends about $60 on food, plus $14 for the internet, much less than the cost of renting an office in Davis Square.

I've seen people sit in the Diesel with nothing for an hour during busy times, then take a lunch bag with sandwich and drink out of their bags and happily chow down without paying a cent.

Comments

[ron_newman]

Thanks for posting this -- I'd been meaning to do it myself.

I do have to admit doing the opposite of this once -- buying a coffee and muffin at Diesel, then taking it across the street to a Starbucks outdoor table where I was meeting other people.

[jadelennox]

I've wondered, sometimes, if different courtesies should apply to the outdoor tables.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Panera does this, FWIW. Not that there is one in Davis, but still. Same effect.

[ron_newman]

Panera does what? (Turns off Wi-Fi at certain hours?)

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[srl.livejournal.com]

The one in Arlington Heights seems to leave theirs on all day.

[nowalmart.livejournal.com]

As I have said before, I really like Diesel, but I really dislike it when I am unable to find a place to sit because so many tables and booths are taken up with people with laptops (yes, I realize that a person does not need to be using a laptop to be doing long-term work, but it is fairly common).

I tend to avoid going to Diesel during their "busier hours" as a result.

[overstim.livejournal.com]

Ditto for singles who take up a booth for four...

You know who you are.

just ask

[cthulhia]

when I manage to get a booth to myself, I try not to spread out on it precisely so people will feel more comfortable asking if they can use the rest of the booth.

(although, at this point, I know enough of the laptop regulars that I'll ask to sit at their table first, even if we agree that one or the both of us is too busy to actively interact.)

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I don't care if people are sitting with their laptops, but I wish they'd do it at one of the "desk" seats in back or at least a small table. Why can't people at least share their booth with another laptop user? I mean, how many people worth of seats does one person need?

[seaweedgirle.livejournal.com]

I too have seen many a laptop user hog a booth. Finally, I asked a Diesel barista what they protocol is for sharing space. She said that it's totally acceptable to ask the laptopper to share a booth. I've done this several times since without a problem.

[jadelennox]

Yeah, most people are nice. It's reasonable if people think the booth seats are comfortable for them to sit in the booths, as long as they're willing to share. And most people are.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

I now feel compelled to wonder how many of those people treating someone else's business like their own office are among those who complain about noise from or behavior of other groups of people. :-b

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Amen!

[cleanup-davissq.livejournal.com]

It is inexcusable to hog a table with one coffee and a muffin for over an hour while people who want to eat a sandwich have to wander around or leave. It is outrageous that someone has the gall to take food out of a bag from home or some other establishment.

Too much nicey nicey with these types. Just tell them you need to eat and would they mind if you joined them (as you sit down). Ditto for the laptop booth hogs. If they don't comply, turf 'm out!

[jadelennox]

See, now this I disagree with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with spending an hour at a table at a cafe if you've bought food there. Five hours with only a cup of coffee and a muffin, yeah, then you owe the cafe a little rent on your table in the form of something else to drink. But it's a *cafe*. If they didn't want you to be able spend even an hour they'd have a time limit, and they certainly wouldn't have wireless.

Bringing food from elsewhere, that's a different story, and is just rude.

[desiringsubject.livejournal.com]

I dunno. One of the things about paying for the wireless is that it kinda is like paying rent. If I work there for several hours and bring my own sandwich, but buy coffee and a snack, and buy my wireless, I consider my obligations done.

rent is higher than that

[cthulhia]

wireless charges, coffee and snack is probably insufficient to cover the costs of several hours' rent. If enough people have similar attitudes of entitlement it is likely a major factor in their frequent price increases.

that said, just look up every now and then to make sure there are empty tables. If it's not during rush times, you're probably not costing them money.

Re: rent is higher than that

[desiringsubject.livejournal.com]

Another calculation is this: if I felt I had to spend more than $6-$10 (not including wireless), I wouldn't go there at all. If I didn't go there at all, they would have lost my business. Assuming I don't block anyone else who buys more from sitting, I still give them more than they'd have if I didn't go at all.

[syntheticnature.livejournal.com]

In my opinion, places like Diesel provide wireless as an amenity for their customers. If their primary business was providing Internet access, with food on the side, it would be different. But as it is, I don't agree that you're "paying your rent" by buying wireless. I don't know what %age of the wireless fee the cafe even gets - my total guess would be that the ISP keeps most of it.

[syntheticnature.livejournal.com]

"It is inexcusable to hog a table with one coffee and a muffin for over an hour..." Fair enough, but do me a favor and don't glare too hard at folks who perhaps cleared their sandwich plates before relaxing with their refilled coffee and dessert?

[transformergeek.livejournal.com]

Hey! I reccanize you!

You're jordanwillow's friend!

You live near Davis too?

Small Friggin' World!

[jadelennox]

Everybody lives near Davis, except for the silly people who move to Florida. *g*

[tsuki-no-bara.livejournal.com]

there's no excuse for bringing your starbucks coffee into the diesel, or brownbagging it. i mean, wtf? as for one person taking up a booth, i've cheerfully shared mine but only once, when a guy who just had a paperback asked if he could sit there too.

i think shutting off your wireless for three hours in the middle of the day is kind of an extreme way to weed out lingerers, tho.

[enochs-fable.livejournal.com]

Then what would you propose as a solution?

[tsuki-no-bara.livejournal.com]

they could start charging for it, like the diesel does. (does starbucks charge for their wifi?) i don't know if that would actually change anything, and i'm sure they'd get complaints (no doubt from people who now sit there for three hours with one cup of coffee) but at least they'd be making some money off it.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Starbucks charges for Wi-Fi everywhere; they have a deal with T-Mobile hotspot. I used to have an account with T-Mobile when I was travelling for business and used it at many Starbucks around the country.

[jadelennox]

it is extreme, but I don't know. I like the food at o'naturals, but I never go there, because I have yet to find a seat without standing around for about 15 minutes lurking by tables. It just isn't worth it.

[fanw.livejournal.com]

Just to mention, True Grounds also has free wireless. Same rules apply. Since you're not paying for the wireless, you REALLY OUGHTTA buy some food. Their food is delicious anyway. Who could resist?

[magpie-leah.livejournal.com]

I'm self-employeed and work at home doing doing computer-related stuff. It's really nice to be able to get out every once in a while and go to a coffee shop to work. Paying for wireless access is a total bargain when compared to renting an office. But I try not to do this more than once a week because I think it's really unfair to use a cafe as your office and take up space that others might want to use.

I'm so intrigued by this whole topic though. I often wonder how all the laptop users these days affect a coffee shop's bottom line. Like does the amount a laptop user pay for wireless make up for the fact that (a) they perhaps don't by very much food/coffee considering how long they are there and (b) have potentially displaced several sets of customers who might just walk away due to lack of free tables.

I've been self-employed and working at home for a couple of years now. The solitude can be really hard at times. I've looked many times into renting an office and the lowest price I've seen is something like $400-$500/month which is expensive and that really doesn't solve the solitude problem anyway. It would be an interesting business idea if someone took a large open space and rented it out to people as shared workspace. I've been wishing I could find something like that. Since everyone would be there to work, it could also serve as a way of allowing people to put their heads together and bounce ideas off one another which is something really valuable that you lose when you don't work in an office anymore.

[on-reserve.livejournal.com]

The Emack & Bolio's offers free wireless but only for 4 hours per day. Neighborly, but keeps ne'er do-wells from abusing the privilege. Of course, if they are charging then it becomes harder to put boundaries on how long someone can use a service that they've paid for.

Also: I wonder if paid wireless has exacerbated the problem. With free wireless it's sort of breezy and casual. With paid wireless I could see people wanting to get "their money's worth" so to speak and so really staying longer than they would if they weren't paying for it.

[swissarmykate.livejournal.com]

I had to pull an awkward linger/lurk at the tables today with my salad whilst the laptoppers pretended not to see me. I have to admit, I long for a wireless-less spot where I can enjoy the coffeeshop atmosphere without tripping over cords, and where my sociable chatter with caffeinated friends isn't scowled at by someone manipulating a spreadsheet. Perhaps Davis needs a true internet cafe - which might help this whole work~play debate.

For a more feasible solution, perhaps Diesel could post signs reminding us all that the tables for four or more should go to parties of two or more when other options are available (although I sincerely hope this is common sense to most folks. When dining alone, you wouldn't claim a six-seater table when there's a party of five behind you).

[tracy-rolling.livejournal.com]

I've worked at Diesel a couple times on week days and have never seen any of this terrible behavior. Brownbagging and bringing in coffee from Starbucks. That's nuts.

I always sit back at those tall tables and have never felt crowded or weird about staying there for several hours at a time. I did get hushed by some non-laptop types once having a meeting there with a developer I work with. We lowered our voices. No big deal. Definitely not worth getting bent out of shape about.

If I felt like the place was crowded I would get up and go somewhere else. But during a week day, it doesn't really get too bad. On the weekend I wouldn't even try to work there.

I have one guy I meet with sometimes who prefers Starbucks. I always use the Diesel wireless when I'm forced to work at Starbucks. I'm not sure why. Some kind of sense of loyalty.