some cursory impressions from tonight's World of Beer meeting

[ron_newman]

I went to most of tonight's community meeting about World of Beer and the Social Security Buliding. My impressions follow. If you also attended, please add your comments to this post.

- The landlord wants to subdivide the space into three stores. The front would become a Petco, with entrance on Elm Street. The middle would become World of Beer, with entrance on Chester Street. He has no definite plans or tenant for the back, which presumably would also be entered from Chester Street.

- The prospective franchisee is from Florida. He wants to open 11 Worlds of Beer throughout eastern Massachusetts, but he evidences little understanding of our local area. He said his tavern would differentiate from other local bars because it would not serve Bud and Miller macrobrews .... but he doesn't realize that people here are much more likely to order Sam or Harpoon by default rather than any macrobrew. He had never heard of local brewers Slumbrew or Pretty Things. He said that his tavern would be run better than "99%" of the local places, not understanding that he was insulting local business people.

- Earlier Worlds of Beer served no food and allowed people to bring their own food, but the franchise no longer works that way. This one would sell food, but the menus he passed around were pretty unimpressive.

Most of the meeting attendees had a mildly negative reaction to the presentation. Several people said that Davis Square has enough places already that serve beer, including craft beers; they mentioned Redbones, Foundry, and Five Horses, among others. One person suggested Assembly Row as a better place to locate this franchise. Another said that she knew some people in Maine who would like to rent the same space for a 'high-end' tea parlor.

I sensed a general unease with the idea of a national franchise from the South coming into the square, and a preference for retail shops over more alcohol-serving bars and restaurants.

[Earlier posts about this: one, two]

Comments

[enhf94.livejournal.com]

Any chance for a scan of the sample menu?

[ron_newman]

Sorry, I didn't take one.

If it helps at all, here's the menu of their Arlington, Virginia tavern, currently the closest one to New England.

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

ummm a petco; so he rents the whole space and rent all the other sections to who ever or what ever he wants?

[ron_newman]

I don't understand that sentence. Try again please?

[vonelftinhaus.livejournal.com]

I don't understand the rental of the space- which is my question. Above it says the owner wants to split it up and also rent it to a petco? which is also a national chain

[ron_newman]

I'm confused about what you do not understand. The landlord wants to subdivide the space, renting to three different tenants. One would be a Petco, one would be World of Beer, and one not yet determined.

The meeting did not discuss Petco very much, but I think such a store would be well-patronized.

[somerfriend.livejournal.com]

Gosh, does he think he owns the place? Oh, wait... (I don't want big chains in Davis either, I'm wondering if there is some way we can encourage what we want, rather than focus on discouraging/dictating what we don't want?)

[rramdin.livejournal.com]

Start a retail/restaurant business and pay him what World of Beer would pay him for the space...

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Tea parlor? Yes, please!

[rebeccacceber.livejournal.com]

Thirded!!

[witchdogtor.livejournal.com]

Yes!

[intuition-ist.livejournal.com]

I'd go there, and I know other people who would, too. :)

[aedifica]

Tea parlor: DO WANT!

[mytheria.livejournal.com]

I'd be all for a place that serves an afternoon tea on weekdays that isn't all the way into boston!

[ron_newman]

Tealuxe in Harvard Square?

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Tealuxe is a fine establishment, but it does not serve a proper afternoon tea.

[rebeccacceber.livejournal.com]

Also its nearly always too crowded to sit

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Afternoon tea like in a British style with cake and sandwiches and yumminess? mmm.

There used to be a place somewhere up Arlington/Lexington way that served this. Dunno if it's still open.

[ron_newman]

If you mean Tea Tray in the Sky, that's long gone ;-(

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm out of the business of googling for other people these days. I hadn't been there in a while is all I know.

[janusirsasana.livejournal.com]

The Edwardian Tea Room used to be in Arlington Heights, but hasn't been there for a few years. I never got a chance to go there, but would definitely love someplace nearby to go for a proper afternoon tea.

[rebeccacceber.livejournal.com]

Maybe you mean The Tea Leaf in Waltham on Moody St. I believe its still open.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

Wow, has he researched the market *at all*? I agree that it sounds like a place better-suited for a mall-type environment like Assembly Row, or someplace more suburban.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

this.

[ron_newman]

Maybe he'd have better luck franchising Knockouts.

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

heh, my thought too

[serious-noir.livejournal.com]

...or just cut to the chase and franchise a Hooters.


Thanks for the report. It doesn't sound fabulous.

Re: Petco - I wonder if that is a viable use of the space. I buy massive bags of birdseed and don't see myself lugging it home or even to a car without a store shopping cart, compared with doing that at the Petco in Fresh Pond or Lechmere.

Tea room - yay.

[pklemica]

Reading through the linked post and various comments has finally made me understand resistance to franchise owners from out-of-town in something more than the most abstract theoretical ways I'd managed prior to this. Thank you for this perspective. Despite the fact that it means I'm up a fair amount later than planned...

[somerfriend.livejournal.com]

The new Assembly Square is supposed to have a different vision that the currently Assembly Row, according to the city planners. Let's not ghettoize that area to just be chains.

[nathanjw]

It sounds like he hasn't, but I'm not clear why he shouldn't be allowed to run full steam ahead into the brick wall.

[crschmidt.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't that be bad for the neighborhood in the short term? It would establish a bad record for the space at a time when it sounds like it's changing significantly; presumably being a first mover into the space would offer benefit to someone who moved in there (Just not This Someone.)

[antimony.livejournal.com]

A pet store would be super-useful. Granted, if it's going to be a chain, Pet Supplies Plus >>> Petco, IMHO, but still, it'd be a good addition to the square.

World of Beer, on the other hand, LOL.

[axedmoon.livejournal.com]

I second your feelings. Yea, World of Beer sounds like a fail. I hope it doesn't come to the square.

[miss-chance.livejournal.com]

I"m curious: I get a good sense from your report or the franchiser and of the general crowd. Did you get a sense at all of how the Aldermen or zoning or whatever boards are thinking?

[ron_newman]

Alderman Rebekah Gewirtz is skeptical of the proposal, as is evident from the e-mail I posted from her earlier. I think School Committee member Paul Bockelman's opinions are similar to Rebekah's, but he can speak for himself here (he has an LJ account).

Nobody from the zoning board was there. They were having their own meeting at CIty Hall at the same time as this one, and I would not generally expect them to attend informal meetings anyway.

[teko.livejournal.com]

When Ms Gewirtz first stated her objections, it felt like a silly, stuffy, NIMBY-ish reaction; c'mon Rebekah! Let us have beer!

But from everything I hear coming out of this meeting, it sounds like her feelings weren't unfounded, and I can see why she's resisting this chain coming into the square.

[jimmyfergus.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Seems to me she was right, but in my opinion for the wrong reasons.

[contradictacat.livejournal.com]

some people in Maine who would like to rent the same space for a 'high-end' tea parlor.\

Dude dude dude do you know what this MEANS? There might be a DOBRA TEA (http://www.dobrateame.com/) in Somerville. *damn near hyperventilates* It's not really "lace doilies and crumpets", but it's very very definitely Davis Square. Also, pffft to any dude who thinks he can open up a business anywhere without doing what appears to be even basic local market research. I mean, how hard is it to look up the menus of even a fraction of the bars in the area?

But seriously. Dobra tea is awesome. I've been to both their Burlington and Portland branches, and if one wants to open in Somerville, even though I'm halfway around the world, I want it to happen so goddamn much, it almost hurts.

[ron_newman]

Unfortunately I did not write down the name of the tea place in Maine, nor do I know the person who mentioned it. But your guess seems likely to be the right one.

[pch1.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to figure out where the license is coming from. Is it a full liquor license or just beer and wine?

[ron_newman]

The state legislature recently assigned some new liquor licenses to the city of Somerville to dole out, or they could buy an existing license. He said they hadn't decided which way to go.

[daviscubed.livejournal.com]

From the SOUTH? [clutches pearls]

[wintahill.livejournal.com]

While I do agree that it sounds as if this potential business owner did not do adequate research for his proposal, I am still disappointed by the anti-business impression I get from many of the other commenters on this topic. It would have certainly been in this gentleman's best interests to better prepare for this type of hostile questioning with more informed answers.

I just want to make sure I have everything clear though as it is getting a bit confusing.

Somerville approves of a third frozen yogurt shop in Davis Sq, even though it is another national chain and it would directly compete with an existing locally owned frozen yogurt shop.

Somerville does not approve of another bar opening in Davis Sq, because it is a national chain and it would directly compete with existing locally owned bars and restaurants already in the square.

Nobody seems too upset about the possibility of a Petco, another national chain, going into the former social security building, but a bar would be bad in that location. Well first it was bad because it wouldn't serve food, but now that they propose to serve food also it is just bad because it is a chain.

If people are so against having another bar in Davis Square they should just come out and say it. At least I can respect that even though I don't agree, but all this coded talk about "chains" and arbitrary distinctions between national, regional, and local chains is just ridiculous.

[ron_newman]

the ZBA officially approved Pinkberry. The meeting I reported on here is just an unofficial neighborhood gathering with no legal status whatsoever. So to say the "Somerville" approved one and disapproved the other is comparing things that are not similar.

Perhaps people are willing to welcome Petco because there is currently no pet store in the neighborhood at all, while there are plenty of bars that serve good beer already.

[bluesauce.livejournal.com]

well you know, the demon Whiskey and the devil Chain getting together in one building...heavens to Betsy, can you imagine? *clutches pearls tighter*

If his business plan sucks, he won't stay long. But I'm not a fan of Somerville's anti-business stance of late.

[crschmidt.livejournal.com]

From Ron's description, my personal impression isn't from "This is a chain", it's from "This is a person who clearly doesn't understand what the hell is going on here."

"I will be A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE by not serving Bud" feels... so out of place at *any* place I've been in Cambridge or Somerville; while some places may serve it, certainly I've never been in a situation where someone would have to order it due to a lack of other options... If World of Beer wasn't a chain, that still wouldn't change the fact that someone who completely misunderstands the market just seems like dooming the space to an early failure?

[serious-noir.livejournal.com]

The "coded talk" you seem to be seeing is largely due to your own decoder.

Many people don't want more chains in Davis - be they beer, froyo or pet food. Second tier concern is duplication: we already have lots of beer and froyo, so additions add little or nothing to our quality of life here (I'm not a froyo consumer - maybe there is some huge difference between the three which matters to some people).

On the other hand, be able to purchase items or access services which are currently unavailable here is a win. As are local businesses which represent someone's unique local vision.

So no coded speech - just concern for what these businesses contribute to the quality of life here.

[wintahill.livejournal.com]

As I said in my previous post, I do agree that this particular business applicant is not doing himself any favors in winning over the locals. It is true that it would be in his best interests to to do deeper research about the area he intends to open up his franchise in. That being said I am honestly a huge fan of craft beer and I would love to see a bar focused on craft beer open up in my city. I am a Somerville home owner for over four years now and I have made a large personal investment in my belief that Somerville is a city on an upward trend.

My points are that some people seem to be really against another craft beer focused bar in Davis Sq because "there are already plenty of bars and restaurants in Davis serving beer". Dave's Fresh Pasta just opened the Spoke Wine Bar in Davis Square. It is another "bar" that focuses on wine that one can already buy in plenty of other bars in Davis Square. I did not see anyone protesting the opening of Spoke Wine bar because of the duplication of services. I realize that Dave's has been an existing business owner in the sqaure, I frequent them often, but they have no proven track record of running a bar in Davis or anywhere else. Are they more accepted because wine drinkers are supposedly better behaved or some how more desirable then craft beer drinkers?

As far as my point on chains I just feel the rhetoric here is totally inconsistent, some chains are OK but we don't want chains. I do remember when Harvard Sq was cool and funky and I do not want Davis to turn into that. I live over in Winter Hill not far from the abandoned Star Market on Broadway. I have lived here for over four years and it has always been a vacant eyesore. I know that the owner had a viable tenant of Ocean States Job Lot lined up and the city blocked that from happening, the owner then tried to have it rezoned for residential construction and the city blocked that too. So what we get is a vacant eyesore. Everybody on here and Patch talks about how great it would be to have a Whole Foods or a Trader Joe's there, guess what that is not happening any time soon. The old Foodmaster on Beacon St and the one on Alewife Brook Parkway got snapped up in a mater of weeks by Whole Foods and Stop & Shop respectively, the old Star Market on Broadway has been sitting vacant for years. If any of those companies wanted to building a store here in Winter Hill they could have done it years ago, the reality is they do not want to probably because they know it is not economically viable.

The Social Security building in Davis has been vacant for a while now, it is valuable real estate. The area is currently zoned for bars and restaurants, there are many successful examples already in the neighborhood. I would like to see World of Beers open up there as well as Petco and I would even welcome another froyo/burrito place. If somebody else wants to step up and buy this building and then rent it out at most likely a loss to a Tea Shop or whatever I am all for that too, but don't let it sit empty while you wish for a pipe dream that is never going to happen. Don't discriminate against craft beer drinkers either, they are your neighbors and coworkers.

[wkathym.livejournal.com]

Ok, so if one compares the proposed World of Beer, which I am against, with another beer-centric place, with a HUGE bar, like Mead Hall in Cambridge (which my husband and I love), you can see that it's not just the idea of a place that serves beer that bothers me. It's the idea of a place serving cheap food (wings, fries) washed down with beer. Doesn't sound to me like that would attract the diverse groups of people that live in the Davis Square area. It's geared mainly towards college students. They already have enough suitable places in Davis. Or am I wrong?

Would love to see a variety of places go into that space (or part of it). A tea parlor, serving excellent bakery items, a first-rate restaurant along the lines of Eastern Standard, Hammersely Bistro, Craigie, etc.), a produce/local meats store, a shoe store (The Tannery??).

I guess only chains and bars that sell a large amount of alcohol can afford the sky-high rents in Davis.