(no subject)

[penny-chase.livejournal.com]

Sagra (the newest incarnation at 400 Highland St) opened today. We had a wonderful dinner - the sample of fritture (fried calamari, arancini, olives, and croquettes), grilled chicken, baccala all Romano, and the Torta al vino for dessert. Very much like eating at a fine neighborhood restaurant in Italy - simple, well-prepared, and flavorful.

Comments

[on-reserve.livejournal.com]

I'm happy the place has opened too it's just that we've had, in the past, people with shill accounts posting obviously publicityesque reviews. Which is a shame because the last time it happened, I already wanted to check the place out that had been mentioned and then I sort of had a bad impression after seeing a shill post about the place, you know?

[dani-namaste.livejournal.com]

it makes sense. Like I said, the language of the post came across a bit too much like the food critic on Frasier for my taste - but it's still nice to know it's there.

[clevernonsense.livejournal.com]

I heard they are closing next month ;P

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

I deleted the foundationless attack thread on this poster, and don't want to see another one. Maintaining a journal with content is not a requirement for participation in this community. Some people have LJ accounts for the sole purpose of participating in one or more LJ communities.

To the OP, thank you for the update on the new restaurant.

[watchamacallit.livejournal.com]

The original comment may not have been foundationless (and, compared to other commetns I've seen around here, was hardly ana ttack). This review has appeared in reworded form on three different sites (livejournal, chowhound and yelp) in <24 hours... all from new accounts (the chowhound account was created a few months back but not really active). That. to me, seems potentially spammish. Why else would someone take the time to create new accounts just to push one brand new restaurant?

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Even if it is stealth advertising, it's one short paragraph, and we don't have a ban on publicizing local businesses so long as they post by the rules of cutting any long or graphics-heavy posts. If someone posted "I just opened a restaurant in Davis! Come eat here!" nobody would be upset. (Well, probably somebody would be upset, but such a post wouldn't be outside the sphere of reasonable posting on this community).

[wildflowersoul.livejournal.com]

Personally, I would welcome a rule regarding having content on one's journal prior to gaining posting privileges in this community (or all LJ communities, for that matter). It seems to me that lately we've have more and more people coming in to post who have empty journals, and that indicates to me that they don't have a vested interest in abiding by the general standards of the LiveJournaling community. Which can include spamminess that some of us would rather not deal with.

Regardless, I don't think the deleted comment was a "foundationless attack" so much as "pointing something questionable out."

[ron_newman]

Some of us come here solely to participate in communities rather than to keep our own journals.

[watchamacallit.livejournal.com]

Several communities do require personal journal histories solely to cut out the span. If only this one would do the same... but I understand how outraged everyone would be. Every day I'm closer to starting a spin-off community with my own damn rules.

[closetalker11.livejournal.com]

As for me, I have an LJ just for the communities ... "blogging" isn't really my thing. I think this rule would be a shame.

[on-reserve.livejournal.com]

I think I would be more ok with an owner publicizing his/her own business. It's honest to say, "Hey! I opened this place and I'm really proud of what I've done, please come try it out."

I guess I feel more jaded about people doing it on the owner's behalf under the guise of a genuine review. Maybe this is a genuine review, maybe it's not -- I'm not really one to judge. It just seemed odd given all the new accounts and such, you know? Far nastier cries of "Spam!" have been lodged at posts just like this in the past, I was trying to be polite.

My overall alertness to this has gone up as I now know several friends who are paid to create blogs at various sites that have messageboards and such where people rely heavily on word of mouth for recommendations/reviews and then post lots of positive reviews about particular businesses or in some cases, create the blogs, a bunch of backstory content and then hand the login info over to the owners for the express purpose of peppering various places with positive reviews. You know?

Of course I'm a grown-up and I can spring $20 for a meal and come to my own conclusion about this new place. It's not the end of the world if I try someplace new and don't like it.

I just resent pseudo-spam, "guerilla marketing," marketing via blog, product placement etc. Like I said, I'd much rather have it honest, "My friends opened a great restuarant in a location famous for early closures -- but don't let that deter you! The food is amazing and so is the service."

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

I know it's not the ideal form of marketing, and I too would rather see business owners posting themselves and letting people ask questions, etc. There are a few local business owners who are members of this community, like the owner of Magpie. But unfortunately not all business owners are able/willing to do that, so they ask their friends to help, or employ people to do it. It's not optimal, but there's not a fail-proof way to tell if someone is a shill. I don't think its right to alienate someone because what they posted looks like shilling, but might not be.

I post on ChowHounds. But if I decided to post the exact same review here, would it be spam? I don't think it would. Likewise, I have a membership at MySpace, but my blog has no content at all there. (I just use the account to keep tabs on favorite bands). If I wanted to join a group there but was denied entry because my blog has no content, well, it would really offend me. There's something deeply broken about forced blogging (I know that wasn't your point, but it was the point of the person posting above you).

I agree, I don't like spam (I want to punch the Boston Babydolls every spam day), but in this case, it might just be someone who doesn't blog wanting to share, or it might be a friend of the owner posing as a customer. There's no way to tell, so I think it best let it go. I don't want people to be afraid to post reviews.

[wildflowersoul.livejournal.com]

I don't think "forced blogging" on a blogging platform is a completely outlandish idea. This isn't Myspace or Friendster, which are social networking sites that happen to include blogs, LiveJournal is for... journaling. It's a social blogging site through which people happen to network.

I don't expect my idea to be taken any further than this in this particular community, but I do think it's incredibly weird to be called out for the idea that people involved in a social blogging site should actually be blogging.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

LiveJournal is for... journaling.

Who's law is that? Thousands of people have LJ accounts for reasons other than blogging. Some have accounts only so they can read their friends locked posts. Some have accounts so they can belong to communities (ask Ron). Whether or not they choose to blog in their own LJ is no one's business but their own. If I'm wrong, and LJ has a rule that you must blog if you have an account, you can point it out to me and I'll consider myself corrected.

The primary function of MySpace and Friendster is networking. I have accounts on both, but I don't network on either. Am I misusing their sites?

[wildflowersoul.livejournal.com]

Look, I'm really not angling for a fight.

I don't care what anyone uses the internet and its many offerings for. But it's naive to think that Livejournal as a whole doesn't have some social mores, as do most other internet communities. Part of what makes LJ different from, say, Chowhound is that we can read an interesting review that someone posts and think "huh, that's neat, I wonder if they have other interesting things to say," and check out their personal blog. You can hop over to mine and say to yourself "that girl watches too much tv and is kinda nerdy, I don't think I'm going to take her opinions very seriously."

I understand that there are no rules about what you have to do and don't have to do here, and that's fine as people's personal perogatives, but this community has been heavily loaded with posts from empty journals these days, and that does diverge from the social norms on LJ. From the LJ FAQ: "LiveJournal.com, a web site and online community built around personal journals."

My intention isn't to be hostile, and I think this thread has been pretty civil. You were the one who labeled some thoughts above as "deeply broken," that's some dramatic and hostile word choice right there.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Well, I certainly don't want a fight either. :-) And I, too, personally like it best when someone has public posts on their own LJ, and am always a tiny bit disappointed if a person has no content in their journal or their journal is Friends Only, because people are interesting to read about. But I can't get behind LJ communities that require content in members' personal LJs, mostly because a requirement like that seeks control where control isn't due. True, there is a culture to LiveJournaling, but not everyone embraces that culture or needs it as part of their LJ experience (I certainly don't embrace MySpace culture, but I use MySpace to keep up with my favorite bands). Everyone who uses LJ uses it for their own unique reasons, and so long as they aren't causing trouble in the communities they're in, I don't think its a problem if someone chooses not to blog yet enjoys participating in LJ communities.

[penny-chase.livejournal.com]

OK. I will repeat that I have no relationship to the restaurant, other than having been one of their first paying customers. I've missed having a restaurant in that location, enjoyed my meal, and wanted to let the Davis Square community know that they're open and that I enjoyed the meal I had. I just happened to walk by yesterday afternoon and saw that they were open.

Yes, I also posted to Chowhound (and as was noted I've posted there in the past). But I didn't post to Yelp - don't know how that got there. I'm usually a lurker on boards and listservs, but do post occasionally. Given the reception here, I think I'm going back to lurk mode...

BTW, the prices are reasonable - most entrees (secundi) are under $20. And you could have a meal from the antipasti, fritture, pizza, etc.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Sorry about all this, and I hope you've not been turned off enough to avoid participating in the community. You didn't do anything wrong at all.

-Mod for now (unless this hostility keeps up, in which case someone else can do it)

[sly-salkie.livejournal.com]

How were the prices? I would murder for some good Italian food, but I'm pretty poor. Could one person get away with spending $20, or is it not that kind of restaurant?

Are they really closing next month?

[ron_newman]

that was a joke referring to the poor history of previous restaurants in this space. I hope this one will last longer.

[sly-salkie.livejournal.com]

I've only lived here two months, and I just yesterday realized I was searching in vain for two places I could have sworn were here when I visited a year or so ago. Poor Davis.

[ron_newman]

what places were you looking for? The two previous restaurants at this location were called "Sauce" and "400 Highland".

[sly-salkie.livejournal.com]

one was someday cafe, i think, which is now the crepe place.. i think. then there's the awesome roast beef place which i thought was closed forever but renovated and turned into what seems to be the same roast beef place under a different name, but I was confused about it until I finally ventured in on Friday.

[ron_newman]

Nick's, now Deli-icious. By the way, how was it? I haven't tried it yet.

[sly-salkie.livejournal.com]

amazing. the best roast beef in the area, probably. i would guess that the other food is great too, and the guys who work there are so friendly.

[komos.livejournal.com]

IIRC, they use Boar's Head meats, and it's really hard to go wrong with the brand. I haven't been there yet, but I've a couple of friends who swear by their sandwiches.

[closetalker11.livejournal.com]

Try the Beef Horseshoes at Deli-Icious. Fabulous. Also, the guys behind the counter and completely nice.

[emcicle.livejournal.com]

i like Amelia's for italian, up in Teele Square. The menu isn't hugely extensive, but i've gotten a few things that I really liked. I believe it would be under $20/person if you don't have wine with it.

Wasn't me

[joeatsagra.livejournal.com]

Hi. I am Joe from SAGRA. I am one of the owners. I want to tell you that no one at SAGRA had anything to do with any posting on this site. I just got home and was searching on Google and found the thread. I met Penny and her dining companion in the restaurant. I want to thank her for her comments. And I also want to let all of you know that we have no association other than she and her friend were some of our first customers. I'm grateful she tried us and for her kind words (it feels good that what she experienced is exactly that for which we were aiming).

We have not advertised or marketed in any manner yet. Believe me I have had no time to even think about doing anything yet, let alone post to sites (It's a good idea, though). Painting, cleaning, mopping floors, cleaning bathrooms,learning the computer system, sanitizing everything, learing about the area and the business, dealing with employees, vendors and equipment issues, banking issues, lease issues, bills and more bills....there's been no time to dedicate to any type of marketing or advertising.

Well, that's it...nothing to shill or sell. Thank you for reading this.

Joe

Hold on...

[joeatsagra.livejournal.com]

One more thing...it would be pretty stupid of us to try to get over on anyone by such means (fake postings).

I have no problem being honest with anyone. A woman today did not care for a particular dish...she felt it was too expensive and that her companion's food was much better. I disagree on the cost as the other chicken dish is only a dollar less and much less labor and cost is involed. (We use fresh Bell & Evans chickens which we breakdown ourselves, the cheese on the dish is first quality, the sauce is made fresh to order, etc, etc....this is not sub shop fare), but I do agree her companion's dish is a better dish and it is something I would prefer to order.

We tried our hardest to avoid certian dishes and to maintain our focus of preparing only food of certain caliber and style. The particluar dish I am referring to is actually one of the more popular dishes so far (to my and the chef's chagrin..but we must give people what they want.)

I'll check back of course to see what else is written about us and I am sure it will not all be positive as people have different expectations and tastes.

Thanks again,

Joe

Re: Hold on...

[ron_newman]

Welcome to both Davis Square and davis_square! I hope you last a long time. I'll try to visit your restaurant soon.

[tt02144.livejournal.com]

Well, here's hoping that the poster of the original review is NOT the owner, as he states that the restaurant is on Highland STREET, not Highland AVENUE, not a minor mistake. Hopefully, the real owner knows the address of his business!